MTG mafia game thread (Day two)

[Clem]

Welcome to MTG mafia! Here are the rules of the game.


Rules, stolen from PK.


Please bold and color your vote. If you do not bold and color your vote, it will not be counted.
Unvoting is necessary for a new vote.
Lynching will require a simple majority of votes. Once a player has reached the necessary majority, his pleas are useless and any attempts to unvote will be unheeded. At the deadline, I will remove the newest votes until someone is lynched via plurality.
You may not discuss the game outside this thread unless your role specifically says so.
Once your death scene has been posted, you’re dead. Do not post once dead.
Once dead, do not discuss the events of the game with living players or people who might replace in.
Do not edit your posts. This will get you modkilled.
Do not quote any PMs or IMs from me. This will get you modkilled.
If you have a night choice to make, it is due by the posted deadline. I will not wait for you – if you do not submit a choice to me, no choice will be made. Please also note the spelling of my screen name to make sure you send your target to the right account.
If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 72-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
Have fun



1. Shadow
2. Jenius
5. Dullahan
6. LegendShark
8. jimbyob
9. ShadyPhoenix

12. 121p


11. MoD, Cunning Advisor, Vanilla town, lynched day one.
7. PariahKing, Grizzly Bears, Vanilla town, NK'd night one
10. mrs_bun, Phryrexian Gargantua, Vanilla town, modkilled day two.
3. Naga, Magus of the Arena, Mafia role blocker, modkilled day two.
4. Cara, Lurker, Mafia goon, modkilled day two.

This is important! This game was made using a basic game set up. All the roles that may or may not be in this game can be found here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=18692412&postcount=80).

[Clem]

You wake up to see a space filled with eleven strangers. Some of these strangers look nothing like you've ever seen before. Everyone exchanges heated looks with each other. You are all sizing the others up, just in case a fight breaks out. The tension starts to grow harder and harder to bear with each passing moment. Fortunately, before anyone begins to fight, a thirteenth figure enters the space. Its as if he appears out of no where. He has an air of power about him that is unmistakable. He speaks in a deep voice, "You twelve have been brought here for a reason. There are those amongst you who seek great power at the expense of others. Your job is to find those who would hurt others for their own gain, and stop them."

The man than disappears as quickly as he came, leaving you to think about his words. You all decide to take a vote on who you think is one of the traitors and lynch them each day.

It is now day one. With 12 alive, it'll be 7 to lynch.

[jimbyob]

Vote: Jenius

obvious scum is obvious

[mrs_bun]

I sense plot twists a-comin.

[PariahKing]

Vote: Jim

It rhymes with Him...a villain from the Power Puff Girls. Who's creator designed Samurai Jack - a show similar to Kamigawa block which was one of the lamest and most hated blocks ever.

.: the inescapable conclusion is that Jim is scum.

Probably Lord Konda!

[Shadow]

Posting in the thread.

[mrs_bun]

Random voting is scummy. Odds are, you will lynch town with a truly random vote, and since mafia knows who isn't town, when the day one lynch they instigate ends up being a townie, they can claim "well it was random, so odds are it would be town." How does that make sense? I'm not so sure if jim is knows that, but how many games of mafia have you played, PK? Are you voting for him for the same reason I'm tempted to vote for you, for "random" voting, or are you just being wacky?

FoS: jimbyob and PK for voting right off the bat with no info.

I'll remove my finger from yall if you care to explain your votes.

[mrs_bun]

I'll remove my finger from yall

Jesus Christ wtf.

[jimbyob]

Random voting is scummy. Odds are, you will lynch town with a truly random vote, and since mafia knows who isn't town, when the day one lynch they instigate ends up being a townie, they can claim "well it was random, so odds are it would be town." How does that make sense? I'm not so sure if jim is knows that, but how many games of mafia have you played, PK? Are you voting for him for the same reason I'm tempted to vote for you, for "random" voting, or are you just being wacky?

FoS: jimbyob and PK for voting right off the bat with no info.

I'll remove my finger from yall if you care to explain your votes.

hear that yall, random votes are scummy, i dont really no why tho lmao

Jesus Christ wtf.

:rip:

[jimbyob]

Also: I have played in 15+ games so I think I would know what I'm doing by now

[jimbyob]

or not lmao

[Clem]

Highly unnecessary vote count

(1) Jenius-jim
(1) jim-PK

[mrs_bun]

Just curious what yalls motives were is all.

[Shadow]

I believe it is what is called a "random vote".

:P

[mrs_bun]

I'm just making sure!

[MoD]

hear that yall, random votes are scummy, i dont really no why tho lmao



:rip:

:rofl:

I'm just making sure!

DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THEY WOULD FUCKING TELL YOU THEIR REASONING JESUS TITTY FUCKING NIGGERLOVING CHRIST

[mrs_bun]

Omg yelly :(

[MoD]

Omg yelly :(

:thurst:

[mrs_bun]

Okay, lets try to behave and find out who is scum. (spoiler alert: I am town)

[jimbyob]

Okay, lets try to behave and find out who is scum. (spoiler alert: I am town)

I think you're scum.

[mrs_bun]

Danggg it. I'm town, tho. :(

I was honestly surprised to find out I was town two times in a row. :teach:

[Shadow]

/facepalm

[jimbyob]

Danggg it. I'm town, tho. :(

I was honestly surprised to find out I was town two times in a row. :teach:

Fair enough.

[mrs_bun]

So now claiming town is scummy?! Omg. Put me back on mafia, I suck at town. XP

[jimbyob]

Meh, it was more to see your reaction than me actually thinking it.

[LegendShark]

Vote: Bun

[mrs_bun]

fos: legend shark

[MoD]

Bun: a little tip. Stop roleclaiming on day one. It's really fucking annoying, and if it weren't for the fact that it's you, it would be a dead giveaway of scum status.

[Jenius]

Posting to say I'm here but I'm kinda busy at the moment.

Also clearly Jim sees me as a threat from my awesome insight in the game where Jim won it for everybody but I called it first. He's scum trying to get rid of the best player.

Also protip: this was not a serious post.

[PariahKing]

Random voting is scummy. Odds are, you will lynch town with a truly random vote, and since mafia knows who isn't town, when the day one lynch they instigate ends up being a townie, they can claim "well it was random, so odds are it would be town." How does that make sense? I'm not so sure if jim is knows that, but how many games of mafia have you played, PK? Are you voting for him for the same reason I'm tempted to vote for you, for "random" voting, or are you just being wacky?

FoS: jimbyob and PK for voting right off the bat with no info.

I'll remove my finger from yall if you care to explain your votes.The purpose of random voting is to not r(andomly)ynch a player but to see someone overreact to start discussion and start the game.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Okay, lets try to behave and find out who is scum. (spoiler alert: I am town)
jesus christ, stop being terrible at mafia

Anyway, why does mafia even start on day one? It is such a stupid, unproductive day that too frequently ends with a town dead that then evolves into a night which leaves either one or two town dead. I'd rather just start on night one, personally, just to help fast forward the game into actual game mode as opposed to retarded flailing mode.

I'm fairly inclined to vote for bun for ... well, I'm just going to go ahead and say it, being flagrantly terrible at mafia, and probably doing more harm to whatever side she's on than good. Which could go either way, I suppose, but she's statistically likely to be town so this is not a god reason to lynch her. Besides, she's never improve if we don't let her play.

[PariahKing]

vote: shady

"well let's do this but not maybe I dunno let's see what you all think of it"

[PariahKing]

unvote, vote: shady

[Jenius]

"well let's do this but not maybe I dunno let's see what you all think of it"

I have a feeling you'll be voting for me at some point :V.

I dunno, I basically had the exact same argument in pandemic mafia against bun, she's almost worth killing simply because how terrible of a player she can be and her ragequitting/rage role revealing etc.

On the other hand, she's probably town so it'd be a bad idea to vote for her at the moment.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

unvote, vote: shady
Uh, alright, I guess.

I was just explaining that I don't think people should vote for bun based on that reasoning, because that's what everyone was likely going to do (LS already has). She hasn't done anything too scummy (unless you consider her ditzy, annoying behavior scummy, which has some merit), and we'd be 'convenience' killing her which obviously has no bearing on whether or not she's town or scum.

FoS: PK for bad voting logic.

[Cara]

unvote, vote: shady

This is professional mafia here.

[Dullahan]

vote: bun

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

vote: bun
It's like my post never even mattered. :(

[PariahKing]

Uh, alright, I guess.

I was just explaining that I don't think people should vote for bun based on that reasoning, because that's what everyone was likely going to do (LS already has). She hasn't done anything too scummy (unless you consider her ditzy, annoying behavior scummy, which has some merit), and we'd be 'convenience' killing her which obviously has no bearing on whether or not she's town or scum.

FoS: PK for bad voting logic.This doesn't seem spectularly wishy washy to you?
I'm fairly inclined to vote for bun for ... well, I'm just going to go ahead and say it, being flagrantly terrible at mafia, and probably doing more harm to whatever side she's on than good. Which could go either way, I suppose, but she's statistically likely to be town so this is not a god reason to lynch her. Besides, she's never improve if we don't let her play.My point is that you seem to straddle the fence here - if the town goes "lol vote bun," you can go there or let them go there without joining to incriminate yourself if she dies town. Or if they dislike it you can say "well I was not really for the bun lynch."

The vote exists for the wishy washyness of the position. Someone's gotta vote at some point, lest we hang here forever in boredom. Minor stuff gets votes d1.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

This doesn't seem spectularly wishy washy to you?
My point is that you seem to straddle the fence here - if the town goes "lol vote bun," you can go there or let them go there without joining to incriminate yourself if she dies town. Or if they dislike it you can say "well I was not really for the bun lynch."

The vote exists for the wishy washyness of the position. Someone's gotta vote at some point, lest we hang here forever in boredom. Minor stuff gets votes d1.

It seems either wishy washy, or, and this is important, it follows a trail of logic that comes to a conclusion (like, for example, lynching bun at this junction based solely on the fact that she's a terrible mafia player is a stupid plan). Knowing me, which do you think it is, honestly?

I'm not saying that I'm against voting for bun, period, and I feel the need to FoS you even harder for artificially creating a possibility that would incriminate me regardless of how things turned out.

If the town decides to lynch bun based on the fact that she's bad at this game, I'm not going to vote, because that's a bad reason to lynch someone. If the town presents some logical information that incriminates bun, I may decide to lynch her, if I feel it's compelling enough. If that's being wishy washy then being intelligent and receptive to new information is being wishy washy and the entire game of mafia is nothing but a masturbatory, wishy washy mess.

That you would single me out for essentially posting my internal logic publicly is incredibly scummy.

[121p]

Random voting is scummy. Odds are, you will lynch town with a truly random vote, and since mafia knows who isn't town, when the day one lynch they instigate ends up being a townie, they can claim "well it was random, so odds are it would be town." How does that make sense? I'm not so sure if jim is knows that, but how many games of mafia have you played, PK? Are you voting for him for the same reason I'm tempted to vote for you, for "random" voting, or are you just being wacky?


are you suggesting no lynch, then? because that is never a good idea.

and yes, from what i've seen bun is an awful mafia player and no matter which side she's on the town will benefit from lynching her.

[Naga]

I think bun's claim is either not important, or an indication of scummy behaviour. It's pretty obvious that everything wants themselves to seem as they are town. Usually it's just assumed, though. Bun trying so hard to prove that she's town, by saying that "I'm town", sounds like either she's really bad at mafia, or she has something to hide.

Knowing her, it sounds more like the former, but you can never be sure.

FoS: bun

[MoD]

Oh PK... <3

FoS for pointing the finger at Shady for such a shady reason. (lololololol)

As for bun: Nah, I don't think we should vote her. She's just ditzy.

[LegendShark]

As for bun: Nah, I don't think we should vote her. She's just ditzy.

But that's the perfect coverup!

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

But that's the perfect coverup!
It really is, and it's not beyond her to use that fact for manipulation. On the other hand, she has ragequit before, which indicates just the opposite, that she's legitimately ... well. You know. Whatever.

I think it's more reasonable to conclude that she's just bad town, though we shouldn't rule out the pseudo-scummy behavior if anything else presents itself.

[PariahKing]

Kind of surprised at the reaction to be honest. What's so hard to understand that you bring up an issue and don't really take either side of the issue? It was not a logical progression - it was "I guess" or "I maybe" like.

What's more interesting than the issue I voted for is I'm getting FoSed repeatedly - not voted. You're going to upgrade a FoS to a stronger FoS in the middle of day one? I don't see any reason why you wouldn't just vote me.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Kind of surprised at the reaction to be honest. What's so hard to understand that you bring up an issue and don't really take either side of the issue? It was not a logical progression - it was "I guess" or "I maybe" like.
Hm?

I'm fairly inclined to vote for bun for ... well, I'm just going to go ahead and say it, being flagrantly terrible at mafia, and probably doing more harm to whatever side she's on than good. Which could go either way, I suppose, but she's statistically likely to be town so this is not a god [sic] reason to lynch her.

That seems pretty conclusive to me, especially the part that concludes that her being bad at mafia isn't a sufficient reason to lynch her.

What's more interesting than the issue I voted for is I'm getting FoSed repeatedly - not voted. You're going to upgrade a FoS to a stronger FoS in the middle of day one? I don't see any reason why you wouldn't just vote me.
I generally reserve my votes for people I am either convinced or very nearly convinced are scum. Other than try to push a stupid point to try and get a lynch on day one, you haven't really done anything.

Except continue the argument after I had given a sufficient explanation. Actually, what's most interesting of all is that you haven't actually addressed my statements, but are instead attempting to use them to incriminate me.

Vote: PariahKing, because he's still voting for me for terrible reasons. It makes no sense to maintain a vote on someone if they refute your claims and you don't actually respond to those refutations unless you're not voting for them out of suspicion.

[mrs_bun]

The purpose of random voting is to not r(andomly)ynch a player but to see someone overreact to start discussion and start the game.

True. :teach:

jesus christ, stop being terrible at mafia

:V

Anyway, why does mafia even start on day one? It is such a stupid, unproductive day that too frequently ends with a town dead that then evolves into a night which leaves either one or two town dead. I'd rather just start on night one, personally, just to help fast forward the game into actual game mode as opposed to retarded flailing mode.

I'm fairly inclined to vote for bun for ... well, I'm just going to go ahead and say it, being flagrantly terrible at mafia, and probably doing more harm to whatever side she's on than good. Which could go either way, I suppose, but she's statistically likely to be town so this is not a god reason to lynch her. Besides, she's never improve if we don't let her play.

Aww, statistically likely to be town is the nicest thing you've said to me in a while. :o

But that's the perfect coverup!

Thbbbt. :P

It really is, and it's not beyond her to use that fact for manipulation. On the other hand, she has ragequit before, which indicates just the opposite, that she's legitimately ... well. You know. Whatever.

I think it's more reasonable to conclude that she's just bad town, though we shouldn't rule out the pseudo-scummy behavior if anything else presents itself.

:teach:

I'm voting for PK because he made the classically "correct" move of voting for someone who random voted right off the bat, which I feel is suspicious. I guess he's on like yomi layer 2 or 3, but I feel like its scummy rather than towny.

Also, Cara, Jenius, and Shady aren't liking PKs votes right now, and I consider these four to be some of the best mafia players I know, and if those three are voting against the fourth, then either my hunch that he's scummy is right, or the first three are all mafia and we're all dead anyway.

unvote (if any), vote: PK

I'm keeping this vote even if PK unvotes me.

Thanks for trying to help me improve yall, omg! ^_^

[mrs_bun]

Er, even if PK unvotes Shady, that is.

[MoD]

Also, Cara, Jenius, and Shady aren't liking PKs votes right now, and I consider these four to be some of the best mafia players I know, and if those three are voting against the fourth, then either my hunch that he's scummy is right, or the first three are all mafia and we're all dead anyway.

Cara and Jenius didn't vote PK...

[Cara]

If you consider me amoung the best players you know, you must have low standards.

I'm terrible.

[121p]

Anyway, why does mafia even start on day one? It is such a stupid, unproductive day that too frequently ends with a town dead that then evolves into a night which leaves either one or two town dead. I'd rather just start on night one, personally, just to help fast forward the game into actual game mode as opposed to retarded flailing mode.


starting on day 1 is beneficial for the town. this way, at least we have a chance of lynching a mafioso and than going to night one and losing a for sure non-mafioso rather than just losing a non-mafioso by starting on night 1.

anyways, i don't think anyone's acting TOO scummy atm but i'm just gonna' come out and say that if we can't decide on someone to lynch we should lynch bun for the aforementioned reason that she is an awful player. sorry, bun.

[mrs_bun]

Cara and Jenius didn't vote PK...

Sorry, no, but they've said things about him.

If you consider me amoung the best players you know, you must have low standards.

I'm terrible.

Not as far as our little effed up family is concerned. I've rarely seen you die early as mafia or town, and I liked your thoughts/ideas when we were mafia, even if you shot down my awesome plan, thbbbt. :P

fos: cara :V

starting on day 1 is beneficial for the town. this way, at least we have a chance of lynching a mafioso and than going to night one and losing a for sure non-mafioso rather than just losing a non-mafioso by starting on night 1.

anyways, i don't think anyone's acting TOO scummy atm but i'm just gonna' come out and say that if we can't decide on someone to lynch we should lynch bun for the aforementioned reason that she is an awful player. sorry, bun.

Those sound like the words of someone who knows I'm town and is setting up that revelation with "I'm pretty sure you're town, but you're bad, so I'll lynch you."

I'll get the ball rolling, though, if you feel that way. vote: bun

I'm not quitting, I'm, just proving that I'm town. If no town votes for me, then I can't get lynched, so I assume I will be safe.

[mrs_bun]

Ooops

unvote: PK, vote: bun

[121p]

Those sound like the words of someone who knows I'm town and is setting up that revelation with "I'm pretty sure you're town, but you're bad, so I'll lynch you."true. but i've come to the conclusion that you're so bad a player that lynching you would benefit the town, regardless of whether you are town or mafia. anyways, i'm saying we should vote for you only if days go by and we still can't settle on who to vote for, i'm not saying we should lynch you regardless of facts that may arise.

I'll get the ball rolling, though, if you feel that way. vote: bun

I'm not quitting, I'm, just proving that I'm town. If no town votes for me, then I can't get lynched, so I assume I will be safe.

buh? could you elaborate on your logic a little more?

also, i was thinking about the pros/cons of nameclaiming? since this is mtg based i think that we could get some relevant information out of that without giving too much away to the mafia.

[mrs_bun]

Then vote for me. I'm not going to play a game with someone who wants to just lynch me on principle.

And nameclaiming is pointless. The mafia will actually get MORE info out of it, usually, because the town is like, okay, that's your name, but are you really town, and is that really your name? And the mafia is like "okay we already know you're town, and you sound like the doctor from that role, so stabby stabby."

I can think of a few reasons you might wanna, but there's no real benefit to just randomly busting out with it.

[Naga]

Sorry, no, but they've said things about him.



Not as far as our little effed up family is concerned. I've rarely seen you die early as mafia or town, and I liked your thoughts/ideas when we were mafia, even if you shot down my awesome plan, thbbbt. :P

fos: cara :V



Those sound like the words of someone who knows I'm town and is setting up that revelation with "I'm pretty sure you're town, but you're bad, so I'll lynch you."

I'll get the ball rolling, though, if you feel that way. vote: bun

I'm not quitting, I'm, just proving that I'm town. If no town votes for me, then I can't get lynched, so I assume I will be safe.

God, you're terrible.

"I'm an American. If you disagree with me, you're a terrorist. Prove I'm an American? I don't need no proof, I'M A FUCKING AMERICAN. YOU MUST BE A TERRORIST IF YOU EVEN QUESTION MY CLAIM BASED ON ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF!!''!!!"

[mrs_bun]

What the heck are you talking about? I'm just irritated at someone basically saying "everyone should always vote for you at the beginning of any mafia no matter what"

I never said 121 was a terrorist. In fact, I think that he's prolly NOT mafia, if anything. Although I tend to take things personally, so I guess he could be mafia jsut trying to get me lynched.

What the hell is your porblem, Naga?

[mrs_bun]

Ha, porblem. :rolleyes:

[mrs_bun]

God dammit, I sent Naga a pm basically saying "what's your problem" and some other stuff.

It didn't occur to me that it was talking about the game, since that wasn't the point of me sending it, but it technically was about mafia, so I should either be modkilled or replaced, as you like. I didn't give away any info, and I can quote my pm if you want.

Sorry, yall.

[121p]

What the heck are you talking about? I'm just irritated at someone basically saying "everyone should always vote for you at the beginning of any mafia no matter what"
if you read my post, i said we should only vote for you if we have no idea on who to vote for, which there is a small chance of happening. i'm just saying, from what i've seen in the other mafia game you are currently in, you just seem to be really flaky and can easily succumb to mob mentality, causing you to flip fop quite a bit. this kind of behavior, even if you are town, is detrimental to the town because a strong mafia player who IS mafia could just string you along easily.

God dammit, I sent Naga a pm basically saying "what's your problem" and some other stuff.

It didn't occur to me that it was talking about the game, since that wasn't the point of me sending it, but it technically was about mafia, so I should either be modkilled or replaced, as you like. I didn't give away any info, and I can quote my pm if you want.

Sorry, yall.you were so upset about his post that you sent him an angry pm? it's a mafia game, chill out.

[121p]

also, could you elaborate on your ploy of voting for yourself?

[121p]

also, could you elaborate on your ploy of voting for yourself?

because this is the kind of thing that makes you a bad mafia player.

[mrs_bun]

What the heck was @ naga.

And his post was kind of ...I won't say uncalled for, but mean.

Anyway, since I basically just killed myself, I don't think I should say or do anything else prolly.

[121p]

What the heck was @ naga.

And his post was kind of ...I won't say uncalled for, but mean.

Anyway, since I basically just killed myself, I don't think I should say or do anything else prolly.

you need to stop overreacting.

[MoD]

Oh what the fuck.

[Naga]

What the heck are you talking about? I'm just irritated at someone basically saying "everyone should always vote for you at the beginning of any mafia no matter what"

I never said 121 was a terrorist. In fact, I think that he's prolly NOT mafia, if anything. Although I tend to take things personally, so I guess he could be mafia jsut trying to get me lynched.

What the hell is your porblem, Naga?

I don't have a problem, and it wasn't related in any way to the other mafia game. I don't know how you drew that conclusion.

Okay, that might have been over the top. I apologize for the rudeness of it. Here's what I meant: You said you were town, then you expected us to prove otherwise, when really the onus is on you to prove to us that your claim is true. No one called into question your alignment before you claimed town. You were the one who brought it up. If you hadn't said anything, no one would have mentioned the fact that you were scummy (without you having said or done anything else, of course). The fact that you brought it up makes it seem like you have something to hide.

And for disclosure, bun's PM. I didn't reply.
whats ur problem? if u dont want me to play, replace me. dont yell at me. in another game, no less.

[mrs_bun]

you need to stop overreacting.

Overreacting how? I broke the rules, so I'm not assuming I can slide by on ditziness. I only get so many of those cards, and I'm pretty sure most ppl would agree I've used em up.

[mrs_bun]

Oh right, sorry, ya, naga didn't reply, so he shouldn't be yelled at, obv. Sorry naga.

[MoD]

I'm going to take a shit now.

[MoD]

Metaphorically speaking.

[Naga]

I'm going to take a shit now.

Twitter is over there.

[mrs_bun]

Okay, that might have been over the top. I apologize for the rudeness of it. Here's what I meant: You said you were town, then you expected us to prove otherwise,

No, its fine, its jsut a game, and I shouldn't have taken it personally.

I didn't expect anyone to "prove" I wasn't town, I was just upset at 121 for saying that in any mafia game, a good town play is to just lynch me. Which is first of all, not true, because any time I'm town, I can't really hurt town just by being alive, despite the fact that I joked that statistically, I'm bad for my own team, but really I'm only bad when I'm mafia, because that's all I'd ever been before. Roleclaiming mafia gets mafia killed, and hitting other mafia members is bad too, but I can't really hurt town at all when I'm town, unless you count getting lynched and wasting a lynch, and while that is technically hurting town, lynching me is hardly the solution to stopping me from getting lynched. And finally, since I originally suggested it (jokingly,) its tacky to agree with me. :teach:

[mrs_bun]

Metaphorically speaking.

You have to literally drop your kids off at the pool? o_O

[PariahKing]

1) It's Day One.

2) Votes are cast for minimal reasons D1.

I really do not expect you to lynch me over my Shady vote. It's apparent to everyone ever since I cast it he was not going to die over it and I am not in a hurry to kill Shady. I see no better place for my vote so I see no reason to not unvote. It seems to be definitely generating information.

I am interested primarily in how people have reacted to the scenario because in my opinion there was some basis to my argument. Apparently, you all disagree. All the FoSing was interesting and so was the occasional vote.

No claim, no unvote.

@Bun: Wait, you're claiming that if a townie player votes for you, you can't be lynched? Hm. This seems like it is abusable in some obvious way that is currently failing to mind.

[mrs_bun]

PK: no that is not what I meant to say, if I said that. I meant to say that if no town vote for me, then I can't be lynched unless mafia has a majority. Not a role reveal, jsut math.

[121p]

1) It's Day One.

2) Votes are cast for minimal reasons D1.

I really do not expect you to lynch me over my Shady vote. It's apparent to everyone ever since I cast it he was not going to die over it and I am not in a hurry to kill Shady. I see no better place for my vote so I see no reason to not unvote. It seems to be definitely generating information.

I am interested primarily in how people have reacted to the scenario because in my opinion there was some basis to my argument. Apparently, you all disagree. All the FoSing was interesting and so was the occasional vote.

No claim, no unvote.imo, i think you're reading into things a little too much, especially for day 1. i think shady was just voicing his opinions.


@Bun: Wait, you're claiming that if a townie player votes for you, you can't be lynched? Hm. This seems like it is abusable in some obvious way that is currently failing to mind.

she said "I'm not quitting, I'm, just proving that I'm town. If no town votes for me, then I can't get lynched, so I assume I will be safe."

[MoD]

Bun, some advice: It's a fucking game on the fucking internet. It is not serious business. Don't take it as such.

This mafia sucks.

[mrs_bun]

I know, I'm shushing.

[PariahKing]

PK: no that is not what I meant to say, if I said that. I meant to say that if no town vote for me, then I can't be lynched unless mafia has a majority. Not a role reveal, jsut math....

OK. That's true of everyone.

imo, i think you're reading into things a little too much, especially for day 1. i think shady was just voicing his opinions.As I;ve said, at this point I'm more interested in the reactions of what I said. Especially the FoS to FoS to Vote. That was interesting.

[jimbyob]

Posting to say I'm here but I'm kinda busy at the moment.

Also clearly Jim sees me as a threat from my awesome insight in the game where Jim won it for everybody but I called it first. He's scum trying to get rid of the best player.

Also protip: this was not a serious post.

Shit I've been found out :shifty:

I have a feeling you'll be voting for me at some point :V.

I dunno, I basically had the exact same argument in pandemic mafia against bun, she's almost worth killing simply because how terrible of a player she can be and her ragequitting/rage role revealing etc.

On the other hand, she's probably town so it'd be a bad idea to vote for her at the moment.

I agree, I'm pretty much sure bun is town.

are you suggesting no lynch, then? because that is never a good idea.

and yes, from what i've seen bun is an awful mafia player and no matter which side she's on the town will benefit from lynching her.

No, what a scummy post, town will never benefit from lynching someone they think is town no matter how ditzy they may be.


Those sound like the words of someone who knows I'm town and is setting up that revelation with "I'm pretty sure you're town, but you're bad, so I'll lynch you."

I'll get the ball rolling, though, if you feel that way. vote: bun

I'm not quitting, I'm, just proving that I'm town. If no town votes for me, then I can't get lynched, so I assume I will be safe.

Fucking hell bun, don't do that.

Unvote Vote: 121p

[jimbyob]

imo, i think you're reading into things a little too much, especially for day 1. i think shady was just voicing his opinions.


I dunno why you are defending anyone on day 1, you can never read to much into anything during a mafia game, people voicing their opinions iis how you catch scum.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

2) Votes are cast for minimal reasons D1.
Why? I understand the concept that D1 is essentially random, but that is terrible justification for hastily lynching. In fact, hasty lynches are almost always a terrible idea because you're essentially wasting a resource (time).

I am interested primarily in how people have reacted to the scenario because in my opinion there was some basis to my argument. Apparently, you all disagree. All the FoSing was interesting and so was the occasional vote.
There was (minimal) basis in the accusation, but that you've continued it this far, long after I've explained myself is far more interesting. I would say you're acting so scummy right now that it's too obvious and I know you're not that bad of a player, so it's very interesting indeed.

No claim, no unvote.
I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

I dunno why you are defending anyone on day 1, you can never read to much into anything during a mafia game, people voicing their opinions iis how you catch scum.
I would argue just the opposite, but I guess that gets too far into mind games to be a steadfast rule.

Also, disregard what I said about bun. Ragequitting and self-voting in how many games now? That's inexcusable, sorry.

[121p]

No, what a scummy post, town will never benefit from lynching someone they think is town no matter how ditzy they may be.


well, if the particular townie is easily persuaded by mob mentality which i have concluded that bun is, than that player is a detriment to the town because they are easily swayed by the popular opinion and since the mafia know who each other are it's easier for them to get momentum rolling on a vote, make sense?

also:

I have a feeling you'll be voting for me at some point :V.

I dunno, I basically had the exact same argument in pandemic mafia against bun, she's almost worth killing simply because how terrible of a player she can be and her ragequitting/rage role revealing etc.

On the other hand, she's probably town so it'd be a bad idea to vote for her at the moment.
I agree, I'm pretty much sure bun is town.

care to explain why you're pretty sure that she is town? what exactly are you agreeing with here?

[121p]

also lol
I dunno why you are defending anyone on day 1, you can never read to much into anything during a mafia game, people voicing their opinions iis how you catch scum.


I agree, I'm pretty much sure bun is town.

[PariahKing]

Why? I understand the concept that D1 is essentially random, but that is terrible justification for hastily lynching. In fact, hasty lynches are almost always a terrible idea because you're essentially wasting a resource (time). ...I'm not advocating we lynch you as soon as possible. Never. Voting =/= Kill ASAP.
There was (minimal) basis in the accusation, but that you've continued it this far, long after I've explained myself is far more interesting. I would say you're acting so scummy right now that it's too obvious and I know you're not that bad of a player, so it's very interesting indeed. I think the confusion here is that my voting for you means to you that I have a desire to instantly kill you. With 6 to lynch, 1 vote is nigh meaningless.I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

[PariahKing]

Who's 121p and I forgot to respond to that last point - I don't see a point in that at the moment.

[mrs_bun]

Also, disregard what I said about bun. Ragequitting and self-voting in how many games now? That's inexcusable, sorry.

I didn't "rage quit" i got mad at naga because I felt like he was being mean for no reason. Then I realized its jsut a game and I shouldnt take it so personally. Unfortunately I didn't think about how obv sending him a pm would be outside the rules of the game, so unless clem says otherwise, or wants me and naga to forward my pm so he can decide to let it slide or not, I'm assuming I'm out of the game.

Also, self voting isn't scummy or towny. People aren't likely to vote for someone who votes for themself, so its a perfectly decent strategy. If you really want tho, go ahead and vote for me.

What specifically did you want everyone to disregard about what I said?

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

...I'm not advocating we lynch you as soon as possible. Never. Voting =/= Kill ASAP.
I think the confusion here is that my voting for you means to you that I have a desire to instantly kill you. With 6 to lynch, 1 vote is nigh meaningless.
Hm, fair enough, I suppose, but assuming there are 4 mafia (a fair assumption given the number of players) you would theoretically only have to rouse two other people to vote for someone. By keeping me voted, there is always the possibility for a bandwagon vote, because I'm already a target.

Which is generally why I'm reserved with my votes.

[jimbyob]

well, if the particular townie is easily persuaded by mob mentality which i have concluded that bun is, than that player is a detriment to the town because they are easily swayed by the popular opinion and since the mafia know who each other are it's easier for them to get momentum rolling on a vote, make sense?


Not really, just because someone is a bad player does not change the fact that they are town, lynching someone because they are a bad player is an incredibly scummy thing to do.


care to explain why you're pretty sure that she is town? what exactly are you agreeing with here?

You learn to read reactions, it's likely that bun is town based on her reactions, I refuse to believe that she is smart enough to be putting on a show.

also lol

How does stating your opinion of someone = defending them? You were trying to convince PK that his case on Shady wasn't right, I haven't done anything like that.

[jimbyob]

Hm, fair enough, I suppose, but assuming there are 4 mafia (a fair assumption given the number of players) you would theoretically only have to rouse two other people to vote for someone. By keeping me voted, there is always the possibility for a bandwagon vote, because I'm already a target.

Which is generally why I'm reserved with my votes.

I dunno, it seems more likely their is 3 mafia in a game this size, that is the norm anyway.

[mrs_bun]

You learn to read reactions, it's likely that bun is town based on her reactions, I refuse to believe that she is smart enough to be putting on a show.

Hay!

Also, fine, unvote: myself, vote: pk

[PariahKing]

Hm, fair enough, I suppose, but assuming there are 4 mafia (a fair assumption given the number of players) you would theoretically only have to rouse two other people to vote for someone. By keeping me voted, there is always the possibility for a bandwagon vote, because I'm already a target.

Which is generally why I'm reserved with my votes.With 12 players, 4 mafia seems excessive. 3 is the usual number, 2 mafia and 1 SK if a SK is present. Generally.

And if the mafia want to super bandwagon on you after my vote, let them. It gives the rest of the town a better idea of who is scum. Scum are playing risky if they rush after lynches like maniacs as a group. VA Ninja and Kant just got killed by Jim in The Good Source Mafia and they were scum - it was only 2 to lynch and they hopped on the bandwagon within a page.

You probably wouldn't even die if they did. I'd unvote before they kill you overly quick.

[PariahKing]

Hay!

Also, fine, unvote: myself, vote: pkSeeing as you've said you're not going to unvote, I'm going to ignore it and move on.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

I didn't "rage quit" i got mad at naga because I felt like he was being mean for no reason. Then I realized its jsut a game and I shouldnt take it so personally. Unfortunately I didn't think about how obv sending him a pm would be outside the rules of the game, so unless clem says otherwise, or wants me and naga to forward my pm so he can decide to let it slide or not, I'm assuming I'm out of the game.

Also, self voting isn't scummy or towny. People aren't likely to vote for someone who votes for themself, so its a perfectly decent strategy. If you really want tho, go ahead and vote for me.

What specifically did you want everyone to disregard about what I said?
I'll be honest.

I made my last post in this thread, did some various additional internetting, cooked some food, and watched a movie. When I came back and saw that the thread had jumped two pages, I said to myself, "Wow, I bet bun attacked the hornet's nest again," and I'll be goddamned if I wasn't right.

The PM you sent was 98% not game related. There is no realistic reason you would be replaced. This is a game, not an isolation exercise, you're allowed to communicate outside of the thread with people playing as long as you don't discuss the game, I promise.

There is no reason for you to self-vote. Ever. Unless it's readily apparent you're about to get lynched and you want to hasten the process along, and even then it's bad form. Doing so is just ... I mean, wow, why would you do that? Even if you believed you were going to get removed from the game the best thing you could've done would've been to stop posting entirely so as to not disrupt the game. Voting for yourself is just fucking obnoxious and makes the game less fun for everyone else.

Also,

People aren't likely to vote for someone who votes for themself
lol?

[PariahKing]

I have to say this is miles better than The Good Source Mafia was.

[jimbyob]

I dunno, more posts doesn't always equal better games :rolleyes:

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Who's 121p and I forgot to respond to that last point - I don't see a point in that at the moment.
Oh, I was just making a joke about us showing each other our penises, that's all.
Not really, just because someone is a bad player does not change the fact that they are town, lynching someone because they are a bad player is an incredibly scummy thing to do.
When it comes to mafia, I'm utilitarian. If lynching a townie could potentially win us the game, I'm all for it.

Where I disagree is that bun is sufficiently dangerous enough to town to kill her for our own good, even if she's making that belief particularly difficult at the time.

You learn to read reactions, it's likely that bun is town based on her reactions,
I'm not convinced, but I lean that way.

I refuse to believe that she is smart enough to be putting on a show.
This is a mistake.

How does stating your opinion of someone = defending them? You were trying to convince PK that his case on Shady wasn't right, I haven't done anything like that.
Well, technically, you're defending her as town against assertions that she's not town. You differed because he provided supporting evidence whereas you just nodded in agreement with someone else.

I dunno, it seems more likely their is 3 mafia in a game this size, that is the norm anyway.
Oh, alright. I'll admit it, I haven't played much mafia.

You probably wouldn't even die if they did. I'd unvote before they kill you overly quick.
Just reiterating this in case it happens and PK doesn't retract.

[PariahKing]

I dunno, more posts doesn't always equal better games :rolleyes:Well, this is actually kind of entertaining. The Good Source Mafia was like watching paint dry.

Guys want to mass claim? As Clem is a new mod, we could probably break his set up in two.

[mrs_bun]

Okay, I can see the making the game less fun for everyone else aspect, that's a fair argument, altho that was not my intent. I was just upset.

I APOLOGIZE MTG MAFIA PLAYERS

Altho I still will not be surprised if I get removed/replaced.

Also also, pk, I understand your reasoning for voting for shady now, but you have to admit that you could very easily be scum and "forget" to unvote him at the last minute, getting him lynched, which looks bad. Not totally terrible, but my one little vote doesn;t really make a difference, does it? :P

Also hornets are totally asking for it imo.

[Cara]

Just some thoughts:

A) Don't lynch someone for playing Day one smart, you morons.

B) Stop acting like morons, you morons.

So now that I've pissed off the entirety of the thread, who is 121p?

[mrs_bun]

Where I disagree is that bun is sufficiently dangerous enough to town to kill her for our own good, even if she's making that belief particularly difficult at the time.

:V

This is a mistake.

Aww. :)

[mrs_bun]

Also I think 121 is new. Or at least, I don't know.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Okay, I can see the making the game less fun for everyone else aspect, that's a fair argument, altho that was not my intent. I was just upset.
You act a lot without thinking. Stop it.

Altho I still will not be surprised if I get removed/replaced.
Considering your PM apparently consisted of personal issues that came up in the game as opposed to the game itself, meh.

Also also, pk, I understand your reasoning for voting for shady now, but you have to admit that you could very easily be scum and "forget" to unvote him at the last minute, getting him lynched, which looks bad.
Well, actually, since he's said he would unvote, if he doesn't he pretty much admits he's scum and would get autolynched the next day, so I'm pretty confident I'm not dying today.

Though I don't really understand the purpose of just leaving the vote there. Meh.

[PariahKing]

Also also, pk, I understand your reasoning for voting for shady now, but you have to admit that you could very easily be scum and "forget" to unvote him at the last minute, getting him lynched, which looks bad. Not totally terrible, but my one little vote doesn;t really make a difference, does it? :P
The focus of my singular vote being a threat is kind of silly. My vote doesn't do anything until 5 more people chip in. It's not 2 to lynch. I'd be more concerned about the five other people who hypothetically speed rush to a lynch than the guy who drops the mostly harmless vote one. That's not going to get him lynched.

As to your vote, no, I really don't think it will make any ultimate difference.

[jimbyob]

When it comes to mafia, I'm utilitarian. If lynching a townie could potentially win us the game, I'm all for it.

Well yeah, but that wasn't what I was getting at, lynching bun right now will probably not help the town.


Where I disagree is that bun is sufficiently dangerous enough to town to kill her for our own good, even if she's making that belief particularly difficult at the time.

I don't see bun as dangerous at all.


Well, technically, you're defending her as town against assertions that she's not town. You differed because he provided supporting evidence whereas you just nodded in agreement with someone else.


He hasn't given evidence, his evidence is basically "You are reading to much into this"

[PariahKing]

Well, actually, since he's said he would unvote, if he doesn't he pretty much admits he's scum and would get autolynched the next day, so I'm pretty confident I'm not dying today.

Though I don't really understand the purpose of just leaving the vote there. Meh.I would unvote if we got to speed rush lynch or a premature lynch. I am not saying I would never not put my vote on you for the whole day - that'd be stupid, you could do something horribly scummy that would alter circumstances.

And again - thoughts on mass claim and breaking poor new mod Clem's game?

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Well yeah, but that wasn't what I was getting at, lynching bun right now will probably not help the town.
Don't "get at" anything. Say exactly what you mean.

Lynch all liars, etc.

I don't see bun as dangerous at all.
Really? She's unpredictable, fickle, and impulsive. These things are generally a bad combination, and I see her as being at the very least "mildly not good".

He hasn't given evidence, his evidence is basically "You are reading to much into this"
I didn't weigh in on the veracity of either argument, merely your hypocrisy.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

And again - thoughts on mass claim and breaking poor new mod Clem's game?
I'm not sure of the purpose, other than to add another ridiculous layer of complexity (Are they lying? etc) to the game.

[jimbyob]

Don't "get at" anything. Say exactly what you mean.

Lynch all liars, etc.


I havn't lied about anything.


Really? She's unpredictable, fickle, and impulsive. These things are generally a bad combination, and I see her as being at the very least "mildly not good".


She is not dangerous to warrant a lynching IMO


I didn't weigh in on the veracity of either argument, merely your hypocrisy.

I was only voicing by opinion of bun and didn't start defending her until after I made that post. So I guess it was a bit hypocritical...

[PariahKing]

Well, it depends on if we think the game heavily follows a particular and consistent flavor and if we suspect a doctor/straight cop combination.

[Clem]

bun, I'm confused. What did you do this time? Does it effect the game at all? If it doesn't effect the game, than just keep playing.

[jimbyob]

Well, it depends on if we think the game heavily follows a particular and consistent flavor and if we suspect a doctor/straight cop combination.

It's pointless doing this early in the game when we have no reason to believe there is any special roles/patterns.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

I havn't lied about anything.
Oh, no, and I didn't mean to suggest you were. Just that by 'getting at' something rather than explicitly stating what you mean, you begin to drift into that territory. It was actually socratic advice.

She is not dangerous to warrant a lynching IMO
I agree.

I was only voicing by opinion of bun and didn't start defending her until after I made that post. So I guess it was a bit hypocritical...
Made what post? Because if you're referring to the whole "bun is town" bit, that is defending her.

I don't think you have a very strong case against 121p. Why exactly are you voting for him?

Well, it depends on if we think the game heavily follows a particular and consistent flavor and if we suspect a doctor/straight cop combination.
So they could hook up and party hard, I see. But that would also make the doctor extremely vulnerable, and the cop would die the next night, and for what advantage? There hasn't been enough interplay between us, nor have the roles had time to accumulate knowledge from the night. Revealing roles now would benefit the mafia a lot more than it would town.

[121p]

When it comes to mafia, I'm utilitarian. If lynching a townie could potentially win us the game, I'm all for it.Well yeah, but that wasn't what I was getting at, lynching bun right now will probably not help the town.

really? because it sounds to me that that was exactly what you were getting at:
No, what a scummy post, town will never benefit from lynching someone they think is town no matter how ditzy they may be.
Not really, just because someone is a bad player does not change the fact that they are town, lynching someone because they are a bad player is an incredibly scummy thing to do.


you seem to be contradicting yourself a lot in a very short period of time.

and you're right, you do learn to read reactions. here's how i see you reacting: you come out voting for me with a very flimsy reason (for suggesting that we vote for bun and for defending shady). then, you start backing off your assertions when others do not agree with you and yet you still keep your vote on me.

i'm gonna lay my fos on you, jim. unless something amazing happens, i will probably be voting for you very shortly.

oh and just to clarify for the fifteenth time, i only said that we should vote for bun if we don't have anyone else to vote for (ie we are unsuspicious of everyone) because she is a bad player. i didn't say that we should lynch her because she is a bad player outright.


anyways, i don't think anyone's acting TOO scummy atm but i'm just gonna' come out and say that if we can't decide on someone to lynch we should lynch bun for the aforementioned reason that she is an awful player. sorry, bun.

[PariahKing]

The argument for would be that if there are any patterns of who the mafia/town are, it's a lot less likely the mafia would know them.

I only bring it up because my role is tied very heavily flavor wise to the card.

[mrs_bun]

You act a lot without thinking. Stop it.

I like to think of it as my defining challenge in life. I'm workin on it. :/

As to your vote, no, I really don't think it will make any ultimate difference.

I know, me either, I just was tossin in the XP so I didn't hurt your feelings or come off as bitchy.

I don't see bun as dangerous at all.

Omg I totally know tae kwon do! :O

CHOON BEE! :teach:

[121p]

also, let's encourage lurkers to post more.

[mrs_bun]

bun, I'm confused. What did you do this time? Does it effect the game at all? If it doesn't effect the game, than just keep playing.

Okay, sorry.


oh and just to clarify for the fifteenth time, i only said that we should vote for bun if we don't have anyone else to vote for (ie we are unsuspicious of everyone) because she is a bad player. i didn't say that we should lynch her because she is a bad player outright.

Even if you think I'm town tho? That's the part I don't understand. Also, I know everyone thinks I'm a terrible horrible mafia player, but I've never died on day one, so that counts for something, at least (FAMOUS LAST WORDS IF I EVER HEARD THEM)

[jimbyob]

I don't think you have a very strong case against 121p. Why exactly are you voting for him?

Because I think he is the scummiest at this point in the game.

really? because it sounds to me that that was exactly what you were getting at:



you seem to be contradicting yourself a lot in a very short period of time.

and you're right, you do learn to read reactions. here's how i see you reacting: you come out voting for me with a very flimsy reason (for suggesting that we vote for bun and for defending shady). then, you start backing off your assertions when others do not agree with you and yet you still keep your vote on me.

i'm gonna lay my fos on you, jim. unless something amazing happens, i will probably be voting for you very shortly.

oh and just to clarify for the fifteenth time, i only said that we should vote for bun if we don't have anyone else to vote for (ie we are unsuspicious of everyone) because she is a bad player. i didn't say that we should lynch her because she is a bad player outright.

It's just a bad reason.

[PariahKing]

also, let's encourage lurkers to post more.Through violence?

[121p]

Even if you think I'm town tho?

the way you play, to me, it's impossible to tell if you're town or not.

[121p]

It's just a bad reason.

it's not terrible, but not the best, yes, which is why i didn't vote for her.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Even if you think I'm town tho? That's the part I don't understand. Also, I know everyone thinks I'm a terrible horrible mafia player, but I've never died on day one, so that counts for something, at least (FAMOUS LAST WORDS IF I EVER HEARD THEM)
Why don't you understand? If you do more harm to the town than good, even as town, it makes sense to get rid of you, doesn't it?

And not dying on Day 1 has no bearing on whether or not you're a good or bad player, but nice try anyway.

Because I think he is the scummiest at this point in the game.
Okay... then why do you think he's the scummiest person? What is your thought process?

It's just a bad reason.
Terrible response. You refuted none of his claims nor did you offer any compelling ideology.

FoS: Jim

Through violence?
Naturally.

[Clem]

Vote Count

bun(2)-LegendShark, Dullahan

ShadyPhoenix(1)-PariahKing,

PariahKing(2)-ShadyPhoenix, mrs_bun

121p(1)-jimbyob
Not voting:
Cara, Naga, Jenius, Shadow, 121p, MoD
Please, let me know if this vote count is wrong in any way.

[mrs_bun]

Through violence?

XP

the way you play, to me, it's impossible to tell if you're town or not.

Right, but are you telling ppl that they should vote for me even if they think I'm town, jsut because they are otherwise undecided? That seems crazy.

Also, I realize the silliness of this convo.

Sooo, anyone an artifact creature? :V

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Right, but are you telling ppl that they should vote for me even if they think I'm town, jsut because they are otherwise undecided? That seems crazy.
It's only crazy if you ignore the whole you're a threat to yourself and others thing.

[mrs_bun]

Why don't you understand? If you do more harm to the town than good, even as town, it makes sense to get rid of you, doesn't it?

No I get that obv, I'm just saying I don't see how town can do real damage by being "waky" unless their actually TRYING to mess up town. But even then, they don't have any info, and the only way they can hurt town is by getting lynched, so getting lynched doesn;t solve that danger.

And not dying on Day 1 has no bearing on whether or not you're a good or bad player, but nice try anyway.

I know, I was just setting up the joke at the end of the sentence, everyone knows I suck at mafia. :P

Also, Dullahan and Legendshark, are yall voting for me cuz I'm annoying, or cuz you actually think I'm scum?

[121p]

XP



Right, but are you telling ppl that they should vote for me even if they think I'm town, jsut because they are otherwise undecided? That seems crazy.what shady said.

Also, I realize the silliness of this convo.

Sooo, anyone an artifact creature? :V

i dunno if i should answer this or not...

anyways, i'm going to bed, night.

[mrs_bun]

It's only crazy if you ignore the whole you're a threat to yourself and others thing.

Only in a long term quality of life sense. In one game of mafia, what could happen?

How am I a threat, tho? Being a threat to myself isn't a real issue, because that jsut means I get killed, which worst case means I get lynched and waste a day, and again, lynching me doesn;t fix that issue.

[Clem]

This is important! This game was made using a basic game set up. All the roles that may or may not be in this game can be found here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=18692412&postcount=80).

I'm going to edit this into the OP to avoid confusion later.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

How am I a threat, tho? Being a threat to myself isn't a real issue, because that jsut means I get killed, which worst case means I get lynched and waste a day, and again, lynching me doesn;t fix that issue.
You can a) be an unwitting pawn for mafia b) be an unwitting pawn for some idiot who thinks he's onto mafia but is really just an idiot c) sow disruption for mafia to capitalize on d) sow disruption and just make the game that much more difficult...

[mrs_bun]

Making the game for difficult for mafia, you mean! I'm stopping bandwagons initiated by mafia, too. :teach:

[Jenius]

God fucking damnit bun if I didn't have such a strong gut feeling you were town I'd create 5 mups and replace lurkers just so I could bandwagon vote you and get you to shut the fuck up. I was like "Let's check mtg mafia before I go to bed" and then like 15 minutes of drama and worthless shit later here I am. Can you try to A: suck less or at least B: post less please.

As far as scummyness goes, I actually agree with jim, I'll have to reread some posts and start quoting stuff but I'm tempted to vote with him. I feel 121p is one of the more scummier people at the moment. However, it's late and I don't have time to fully justify a vote, so maybe tomorrow.

[mrs_bun]

Hehehehe, I'm sorry. XP

Everyone always says day one is for gauging reactions tho.

[jimbyob]

Why don't you understand? If you do more harm to the town than good, even as town, it makes sense to get rid of you, doesn't it?

And not dying on Day 1 has no bearing on whether or not you're a good or bad player, but nice try anyway.


Okay... then why do you think he's the scummiest person? What is your thought process?


Terrible response. You refuted none of his claims nor did you offer any compelling ideology.

FoS: Jim


Naturally.

I have previously explained this, I hate repeating myself over and over, I honestly not sure why you are getting so worked up over my case on DIFFERENT player.

[jimbyob]

121p started defending shady when he didn't need to and had stupid reasons for doing so, the fact that he jumped to shady's aid when shady had little pressure on him reeks of scumbuddying. He advocated a lynch on bun even if she is town because he thinks she's a bad player, it is never good for town and the only time you should lynch a townie for the sake of town is if it is essential to win the game, lynching bun right now would not win the game.

Because of that I think he is the scummiest today, the fact that he thinks he's gonna vote for me is even funnier because it will be OMGUS and make him look more scummy than he already is.

[Shadow]

I have to say that I skimmed this mindless drivel and I'm going to throw a D12 when I get home to cast my vote.

[PariahKing]

I rolled a natural one for you Shadow. In fact, since I'm so kind - I'll make the vote for you so you don't have to. :V

Unvote Shady, Vote Shadow

[Shadow]

Vote: PK

For stealing my idea.

[PariahKing]

Super Vote: Shadow

[Shadow]

Omega Vote: PK

[PariahKing]

Chuck Norris Vote: Shadow

[Shadow]

Nexus Vote: PK

[Dullahan]

fos: pk and shadow

[Clem]

Super, Omega, Chuck Norris, Nexus vote count

bun(2)-LegendShark, Dullahan

PariahKing(3)-ShadyPhoenix, mrs_bun, Shadow

121p(1)-jimbyob

Shadow(1)-PariahKing

[jimbyob]

fos: pk and shadow

I lol'd but seriously guys.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

I have previously explained this, I hate repeating myself over and over, I honestly not sure why you are getting so worked up over my case on DIFFERENT player.
Actually, no, you haven't really stated why you think he's scummy, other than the whole "lynching bun is a bad idea" thing (which, surprise, he hasn't actually voted for her yet or made any serious attempts to get her killed). Do you have any other reasons, or is that it?

And really? You're honestly not sure why I'm getting "worked up" over you voting to lynch someone I'm not convinced is scum? Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that I find your voting suspicious and unjustified and therefore scummy? Maybe?

121p started defending shady when he didn't need to and had stupid reasons for doing so, the fact that he jumped to shady's aid when shady had little pressure on him reeks of scumbuddying.
I like how you never qualify your claims, it makes you very convincing.

I am lying. It makes you the opposite of convincing.

It only looks like 'scumbuddying' if you overblow all the details. He didn't argue for my defense after that post, it was a minor comment. He applied all of zero pressure on PK to unvote for me, so calling it 'scumbuddying' is taking that way too far.

And speaking of potential scumbuddying, what's the deal with you and bun? You've defended her as town for how many posts, now? Why so interested in preserving her?

He advocated a lynch on bun even if she is town because he thinks she's a bad player, it is never good for town and the only time you should lynch a townie for the sake of town is if it is essential to win the game, lynching bun right now would not win the game.
Stop using half truths. He advocated a lynch on her if we didn't find a better target. Also, is this kind of a contradiction?

[lynching a townie] is never good for town and the only time you should lynch a townie for the sake of town is if it is essential to win the game

In a single sentence? Really?

Also, if you're so determined to root up scum and so protective of bun, why aren't you asking the two guys who've already voted for her and didn't justify their reasons over someone who just thought it would be a decent idea to not waste a lynch if we didn't find anyone else?

Because of that I think he is the scummiest today, the fact that he thinks he's gonna vote for me is even funnier because it will be OMGUS and make him look more scummy than he already is.
No, him voting for you wouldn't make him scummier than he already is unless you set it up that way, like you just kind of did.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Also, unvote, Vote: Dullahan

sup lurker vote/fos, wassup wit dat

[jimbyob]

Actually, no, you haven't really stated why you think he's scummy, other than the whole "lynching bun is a bad idea" thing (which, surprise, he hasn't actually voted for her yet or made any serious attempts to get her killed). Do you have any other reasons, or is that it?

That is because I called him out on it.


And really? You're honestly not sure why I'm getting "worked up" over you voting to lynch someone I'm not convinced is scum? Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that I find your voting suspicious and unjustified and therefore scummy? Maybe?

I personally don't think PK is scum but you don't see me up in arms defending him, what you are doing reeks of scumbuddying or at least a masonship.



I like how you never qualify your claims, it makes you very convincing.

I am lying. It makes you the opposite of convincing.


Good to know.


It only looks like 'scumbuddying' if you overblow all the details. He didn't argue for my defense after that post, it was a minor comment. He applied all of zero pressure on PK to unvote for me, so calling it 'scumbuddying' is taking that way too far.

That's your opinion.


And speaking of potential scumbuddying, what's the deal with you and bun? You've defended her as town for how many posts, now? Why so interested in preserving her?

Haha, I knew you would try to play this, I have barely defended bun aside from saying that I'm pretty sure she is town, the way she has reacted to pressure and accusations leads me to believe she is town. You and 121p on the other hand have gone out of your way to defend each other.



Stop using half truths. He advocated a lynch on her if we didn't find a better target. Also, is this kind of a contradiction?


He said outright that we should lynch her because she's a bad player.



In a single sentence? Really?


Does it make a difference? Really?


Also, if you're so determined to root up scum and so protective of bun, why aren't you asking the two guys who've already voted for her and didn't justify their reasons over someone who just thought it would be a decent idea to not waste a lynch if we didn't find anyone else?


You just proved my point for me, if I was really so protective of bun, wouldn't I be going out of my way to accuse someone like LegendShark of being scum?



No, him voting for you wouldn't make him scummier than he already is unless you set it up that way, like you just kind of did.

Your deductive skills, they amaze me.

[MoD]

I would unvote if we got to speed rush lynch or a premature lynch. I am not saying I would never not put my vote on you for the whole day - that'd be stupid, you could do something horribly scummy that would alter circumstances.

And again - thoughts on mass claim and breaking poor new mod Clem's game?

I'd be down just for the lulz, honestly. And we're not really getting anywhere.

@ Shady: I'm pretty sure Dullahan's FoS was a joke on a joke. Fuck you for voting him. Hell, I think it's pretty scummy FoS

Now, for serials: Every time bun posts in this thread an unnamed rage grows inside of me, and simultaneously the urge to punch a baby grows exponentially. Punching a baby, however, would not help the town. I think lynching bun might, though, as it would declutter the thread a ton and we wouldn't have to deal with her posts that exist merely to throw sand in everyone's eyes. Vote: Bun

Sorry, nothing personal.

[jimbyob]

:/ @ ^

[Shadow]

I hope she doesn't have a power role!

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

That is because I called him out on it.
What? That doesn't answer my question at all, but I'm just going to assume that you meant "Yes."

And wow, really? I think it has a lot to do with the fact that we've had far more interesting lynch options than her, or at the very least we're not near the deadline.

I personally don't think PK is scum but you don't see me up in arms defending him, what you are doing reeks of scumbuddying or at least a masonship.
I'm not defending him at all, really, because I'm not really convinced he's town. On the other hand, the harder you press someone who I'm on the fence about without giving any decent reasons for doing so, the more I believe you're scum.

That's your opinion.
And how exactly is you calling his defending me 'scumbuddying' not your opinion? If you're going to attempt to dispel any argument I have with this let me know right now so I can just stop the inquisition.

Here, I'll state it another way: I think you're reading too far into this to try and make someone look like scum. I think you're looking for ways to make someone look scummy, as opposed to simply looking at all of the evidence and then deciding who looks scummy. Which is itself a very scummy thing to do. Which is exactly why we're having this discourse.

I just find it interesting that you immediately tied me to 121p by claiming we were 'scumbuddying' when I turned the spotlight onto you.

Haha, I knew you would try to play this, I have barely defended bun aside from saying that I'm pretty sure she is town, the way she has reacted to pressure and accusations leads me to believe she is town. You and 121p on the other hand have gone out of your way to defend each other.
Actually, if you really are voting for him because he wanted to lynch bun, aren't you going extremely out of your way to defend her?

And no, not really, he made an offhand comment and I've been critiquing your suspicion of him because it's pretty bad thus far (HURR DURR HE WANTS TO LYNCH BUN HURRRRRRRRR) and I find your conviction in getting him killed to be extremely suspicious. Why do you keep glossing over the fact that I am accusing you of being scum?

He said outright that we should lynch her because she's a bad player.
Instead of muddying his words, why not directly quote him?:
anyways, i don't think anyone's acting TOO scummy atm but i'm just gonna' come out and say that if we can't decide on someone to lynch we should lynch bun for the aforementioned reason that she is an awful player. sorry, bun.
Do you know what if/then statements are, Jim? They're conditional statements that rely on the veracity of one statement that then draw a conclusion based on it. In this case, it's obvious he's suggesting that we only lynch bun as a last resort IF we don't find a better target. Suggesting that what he said was "we should lynch bun" implies that he means its a good idea right now, which he clearly doesn't.

Does it make a difference? Really?
Uh, yes. Contradicting yourself in the same sentence to me indicates that you're not thinking through your actions, and since I'm already extremely suspicious of you it indicates further that you're just looking for reasons to get him killed.

You just proved my point for me, if I was really so protective of bun, wouldn't I be going out of my way to accuse someone like LegendShark of being scum?
But that would be too obviously scummy, wouldn't it? Wouldn't it be easier to conceal if you just harped on a single person, regardless of what the evidence suggests?

Your deductive skills, they amaze me.
Uh, okay, here: what I'm suggesting is that you intentionally created a trap for him that wouldn't allow him to defend himself. If he did, he's scum. If he doesn't, he's scum. That's an artificial trap and I just wanted to make sure that its falseness was documented.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

@ Shady: I'm pretty sure Dullahan's FoS was a joke on a joke. Fuck you for voting him. Hell, I think it's pretty scummy FoS
Uh.

He's made two posts in this thread: one, an unqualified vote for bun, and two, a "joke" post indicating he thinks Shadow and PK are acting scummy. He's obviously lurking, and he's obviously trying to get someone killed. How is this not scummy? The vote was there to place attention on him.

Now, for serials: Every time bun posts in this thread an unnamed rage grows inside of me, and simultaneously the urge to punch a baby grows exponentially. Punching a baby, however, would not help the town. I think lynching bun might, though, as it would declutter the thread a ton and we wouldn't have to deal with her posts that exist merely to throw sand in everyone's eyes. Vote: Bun

Sorry, nothing personal.
...

Should we lynch LS because he's a jew, then?

[Shadow]

I agree with Shady on all points.

...What?

[MoD]

Uh.

He's made two posts in this thread: one, an unqualified vote for bun, and two, a "joke" post indicating he thinks Shadow and PK are acting scummy. He's obviously lurking, and he's obviously trying to get someone killed. How is this not scummy? The vote was there to place attention on him.

Hmm. Oh. Mostly I just found the fact that the vote was not an fos weird. It's pretty sensible, though, so carry on.


Should we lynch LS because he's a jew, then?

Would his Judaism damage the town? No. Would bun's shitty innane posting damage the town? Potentially. My vote stays on her for now, though I might change it to Dul. I want to see how he responds to your vote on him.

[Shadow]

Would his Judaism damage the town? No.

Proof that it won't, please.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Would his Judaism damage the town? No. Would bun's shitty innane posting damage the town? Potentially. My vote stays on her for now, though I might change it to Dul. I want to see how he responds to your vote on him.
I don't think this is a good reason to vote for her, if only because she has yet to demonstrate any harm to the town. Yes, there's the room for potential, just like there's the room for potential for all of us to accidentally benefit the mafia (assuming you're town, obv). What you're essentially lynching her for is stupidity, and I don't think that's a very good reason.

Proof that it won't, please.
The man has a point.

[MoD]

I don't think this is a good reason to vote for her, if only because she has yet to demonstrate any harm to the town. Yes, there's the room for potential, just like there's the room for potential for all of us to accidentally benefit the mafia (assuming you're town, obv). What you're essentially lynching her for is stupidity, and I don't think that's a very good reason.

I'm just saying that it causes alot of unnecessary confusion and clutter, which can easily throw attention away from other scummy posts.

Or we could just lynch the Jew for taking all the town's gold.

[Shadow]

I'm just saying that it causes alot of unnecessary confusion and clutter, which can easily throw attention away from other scummy posts.

Or we could just lynch the Jew for taking all the town's gold.

Although we might need him for legal advice.

[Clem]

Guys, cut the Jew jokes. My grandfather died in Auschwitz.



























He fell out of a guard tower. :V

[Dullahan]

I start my vote for bun at the start 'cause she always reacts to it, which helps me decide if she is really scum or not.

also lol @ shady for getting all srz over fos.

Personally I think fos is kinda useless but in that case I was amused by using it.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

I start my vote for bun at the start 'cause she always reacts to it, which helps me decide if she is really scum or not.
Uh huh. So I take it you've concluded that she is scum?

Personally I think fos is kinda useless but in that case I was amused by using it.
FoS is pretty useless but it helps if someone is scanning back through old pages, so eh.

[Jenius]

I'm here to white night Jim.

I totally agree with Jim, and I think he's a similar player as I am. He seems to look at how people post and gauge reactions and gets gut feelings on who is or who isn't scummy (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I feel that bun is practically confirmed town at this point, I could be wrong, but I'd be really surprised if she wasn't, and I think that it is scummy as hell that numberp would vote for her. This extends to MoD too.

You might point out that it was an "if no one else turns up" statement, but even if no one else turned up a no lynch would be better than voting for someone you honestly think is town. I think bun should try to post less/cause less drama, but I don't necessarily think she needs to die over her ineptitude.

I'm also not sure why Shady is getting all up in Jim's face over this, he keeps saying he's unsure about how scummy 121p is but his actions basically make it seems like there's some sort of alliance. I can't really specifically note anything he's said, it's just the general impression I get from his posts :V.

Ultimately though, I think I'm going to Vote: MoD. While 121p has specified he would like bun dead in the event no one more legitimate is found, mod has directly voted for her when they're are already a couple votes on her. Unless I'm miscounting, this puts her at 3 votes and halfway to lynch, which seems excessive given no concrete suspicion on her.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

I totally agree with Jim, and I think he's a similar player as I am. He seems to look at how people post and gauge reactions and gets gut feelings on who is or who isn't scummy (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I feel that bun is practically confirmed town at this point, I could be wrong, but I'd be really surprised if she wasn't, and I think that it is scummy as hell that numberp would vote for her. This extends to MoD too.
You go by gut feelings over logic and rationality? Really?

I wouldn't say it's confirmed that she's town (as in, I wouldn't say that about anyone ever unless I had some kind of investigative role to know for sure), but I do believe she is, at the moment at least. I can also see how she could easily be mafia, but there's no strong evidence to suggest it (yet, possibly).

Also, again, 121p has voted for no one, merely voiced his opinion. I feel this is an important distinction.

You might point out that it was an "if no one else turns up" statement, but even if no one else turned up a no lynch would be better than voting for someone you honestly think is town. I think bun should try to post less/cause less drama, but I don't necessarily think she needs to die over her ineptitude.
I agree here, but that doesn't mean there's no merit in the argument. I can definitely see where he's coming from. I just happen to disagree with his proposed course of action.

I'm also not sure why Shady is getting all up in Jim's face over this, he keeps saying he's unsure about how scummy 121p is but his actions basically make it seems like there's some sort of alliance. I can't really specifically note anything he's said, it's just the general impression I get from his posts :V.
I'm getting in his face because I strongly disagree with his logic, yet he seems intent on following it to its conclusion. I don't really feel that he's all that scummy, I just like being aggressive with inquiries because I feel it forces them to either tell truths (which is good) or lie (which is good if we catch them).

Ultimately though, I think I'm going to Vote: MoD. While 121p has specified he would like bun dead in the event no one more legitimate is found, mod has directly voted for her when they're are already a couple votes on her. Unless I'm miscounting, this puts her at 3 votes and halfway to lynch, which seems excessive given no concrete suspicion on her.
Goddamnit, you people seriously lack tact. Why would you jump the gun on this and not let him bury himself.

[MoD]

Jenius, you must understand. My vote was partly a "might as well vote someone" vote, and I think my reasoning for choosing bun was pretty valid. I was hoping it would create some discussion as well. And hey, look what happened!

That said... I didn't really consider the number of people who have voted for her. Because this could easily leave her open to a mafiawagon kill (if no mafia have already voted for her), I'm going to Unvote for now. This might change. Also I guess I wouldn't be opposed to a no lynch, but I'd like to try to avoid that.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Wait, what is the deadline, anyway?

Also, I would rather enjoy it if more people posted their opinions on who's scummy right now.

[Jenius]

You go by gut feelings over logic and rationality? Really?
Well logic and reasons are usually present when I have gut feelings (I mean this is me we're talking about Shady, I think you would know how my mind operates to some extent) but I also think the "hay something feels off here" feeling is important in mafia. I usually don't vote for someone simply because I feel they're scummy, but it's usually what causes me to look into that person. I think upon inspection, some of Jim's reasons are valid.

Also, again, 121p has voted for no one, merely voiced his opinion. I feel this is an important distinction.

And I have merely voiced my opinion on finding his general stance scummy. You may note that I voted for mod, not him.

[Naga]

Now, for serials: Every time bun posts in this thread an unnamed rage grows inside of me, and simultaneously the urge to punch a baby grows exponentially. Punching a baby, however, would not help the town. I think lynching bun might, though, as it would declutter the thread a ton and we wouldn't have to deal with her posts that exist merely to throw sand in everyone's eyes. Vote: Bun

You're letting emotion cloud your judgement, and its distracting you from the fact that bun is most likely nothing but a nuisance. I don't remember who said it, but someone mentioned that bun is acting more like a stupid townie than a mafia member. Yes, she is bad at this, yes, she can be a liability, but by lynching her with the large possibility that she is town is giving the mafia two hits, automatically, or more with the possibility of other night killing roles. This is not the same thing as the town lynching a townie on a wrong hunch, this is knowledgeable sabotage of the efforts.

I'm not discounting the possibility that bun is scum. She could very well be. She could easily be using her typical posting patterns against us. When I had the dispute with her, it wasn't to prove that she was scum, it was to discount the only "evidence" she had that she was town. I wasn't proving she was mafia, I was proving that there is no evidence that points either way, and that she is only hurting herself.

I'm not against lynching bun. I'm against lynching bun because you think she is more trouble than she is worth. If we lynch her, its because we believe that she is scum. It can't be because her alignment is irrelevant, that it is only to get her out of the game. If you feel so strongly about that, I'd much rather you get her replaced, than try to lynch her, because then we don't lose a potential townie because you got angry about her posting style.

FoS: MoD

[MoD]

See: My later post.

I understand your point. And I did get pissed off and let that cloud my reasoning. My bad. Nevertheless, I still think "lol I'm town" on the first post is pretty scummy. With anyone else I'd be suspicious. Also constipating the thread with shit(lol)loads of useless posts is a good way to make it easier to miss things of more importance. As well as random voting.

Again, yeah, probably not enough to warrant a vote, but enough to warrant suspicion. But like I said, I also had the intention of making SOMETHING happen and creating discussion.


OMG HE AGREED WITH SOLID ARGUMENTS HE'S SCUM

[jimbyob]

And wow, really? I think it has a lot to do with the fact that we've had far more interesting lynch options than her, or at the very least we're not near the deadline.

Could be.


I'm not defending him at all, really, because I'm not really convinced he's town. On the other hand, the harder you press someone who I'm on the fence about without giving any decent reasons for doing so, the more I believe you're scum.

You are strongly defending someone who you don't think is town? what?
If you didn't like my reasons I would understand you contesting my reasoning, but you are not contesting, you are defending.


And how exactly is you calling his defending me 'scumbuddying' not your opinion? If you're going to attempt to dispel any argument I have with this let me know right now so I can just stop the inquisition.


I think you misread/misunderstood my post somewhere.


Here, I'll state it another way: I think you're reading too far into this to try and make someone look like scum. I think you're looking for ways to make someone look scummy, as opposed to simply looking at all of the evidence and then deciding who looks scummy. Which is itself a very scummy thing to do. Which is exactly why we're having this discourse.


You can never read to much into any case.

When you think someone is scummy you bring it to the towns attention.

Though I would like to ask you, based on today's "evidence" who do you think is scum?


I just find it interesting that you immediately tied me to 121p by claiming we were 'scumbuddying' when I turned the spotlight onto you.

No, I didn't immediately tie you to 121p, I only tied you together when you started defending him unnecessarily, I understand a bit of intervening but you have fought his whole battle for him, I'd like to see him defend himself rather than have you defending him.


Actually, if you really are voting for him because he wanted to lynch bun, aren't you going extremely out of your way to defend her?


I'm not voting for him for bun, I'm voting for my own reasons.


And no, not really, he made an offhand comment and I've been critiquing your suspicion of him because it's pretty bad thus far (HURR DURR HE WANTS TO LYNCH BUN HURRRRRRRRR) and I find your conviction in getting him killed to be extremely suspicious.

Just because you don't like the reason doesn't really mean much to me. You keep ignoring the fact that part of the reason I'm voting for him is because he defended you out of no where with little reason but "I think you are reading to much into this", sort of like what you're doing for him but on a lesser scale, that plus advocating a lynch on bun because shes a bad player makes me think he is scum.


Why do you keep glossing over the fact that I am accusing you of being scum?

Is that a serious question?


Do you know what if/then statements are, Jim? They're conditional statements that rely on the veracity of one statement that then draw a conclusion based on it. In this case, it's obvious he's suggesting that we only lynch bun as a last resort IF we don't find a better target. Suggesting that what he said was "we should lynch bun" implies that he means its a good idea right now, which he clearly doesn't.

He suggested the idea, that's enough for me to be suspicious of him.


Uh, yes. Contradicting yourself in the same sentence to me indicates that you're not thinking through your actions, and since I'm already extremely suspicious of you it indicates further that you're just looking for reasons to get him killed.

I meant to say rarely.


But that would be too obviously scummy, wouldn't it? Wouldn't it be easier to conceal if you just harped on a single person, regardless of what the evidence suggests?

Because I am pursing a case on someone it is scummy?

You go by gut feelings over logic and rationality? Really?


Welcome to day one, the day where we have NO evidence except feelings and words, their is little logic in day one.


I agree here, but that doesn't mean there's no merit in the argument. I can definitely see where he's coming from. I just happen to disagree with his proposed course of action.

You realise I only voted for him? do you know how meaningless one vote is? I don't use FoS's because they are stupid, I would much rather put my vote on who I think is the scummiest.


I'm getting in his face because I strongly disagree with his logic, yet he seems intent on following it to its conclusion. I don't really feel that he's all that scummy, I just like being aggressive with inquiries because I feel it forces them to either tell truths (which is good) or lie (which is good if we catch them).

You said you were accusing me of being scum and then in the next post you say that you don't think I'm that scummy at all?

[jimbyob]

Wait, what is the deadline, anyway?

Also, I would rather enjoy it if more people posted their opinions on who's scummy right now.

1. 121p (reasons stated above)
2. MoD (voted for bun for dumb reasons and then said that he was trying to incite discussion, it reeks of a cover up)
3. Shady (because he is defending my number one suspect so relentlessly)

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

You are strongly defending someone who you don't think is town? what?
No, congratulations on putting words in my mouth. What I said is what I meant.

If you didn't like my reasons I would understand you contesting my reasoning, but you are not contesting, you are defending.
That's a judgment claim on which you're wrong. I like the way you qualified this important claim, that's really good playing, really, I think you should go to the Olympics for mafia.

You can never read to much into any case.

When you think someone is scummy you bring it to the towns attention.
What!? How is this at all an appropriate response to "You are fabricating evidence to prove that someone is scummy"?!

No, I didn't immediately tie you to 121p, I only tied you together when you started defending him unnecessarily, I understand a bit of intervening but you have fought his whole battle for him, I'd like to see him defend himself rather than have you defending him.
I'd prefer it if you didn't vote/harangue people over shitty reasons, actually, because voting for people on stupid reasons bogs the game down with bullshit and stupidity.

I'm not voting for him for bun, I'm voting for my own reasons.
...

This is giving me a headache. Honestly, what the fuck, if this is the way the game is continuing I'm out forever. Do you not understand that it's incredibly stupid to say "I'm voting for him for my own reasons" when you don't elucidate what the fuck those reasons are?

Am I alone, here? Am I seriously the only one who finds that infuriatingly stupid?

Anyone?

Just because you don't like the reason doesn't really mean much to me. You keep ignoring the fact that part of the reason I'm voting for him is because he defended you out of no where with little reason but "I think you are reading to much into this", sort of like what you're doing for him but on a lesser scale, that plus advocating a lynch on bun because shes a bad player makes me think he is scum.
Seriously?

Didn't I prove several pages back that you're essentially defending bun by asserting that she's town, and that it's incredibly hypocritical of you to then vote for someone based on the fact that they're defending someone?

Did that actually happen or have I finally done too many drugs?

Is that a serious question?
Yeah kinda. Accusing someone of being scum should be enough to get them on the defensive, but I guess voting for you and overplaying my position is what I would have to do. :/

He suggested the idea, that's enough for me to be suspicious of him.
Suspicious? Sure.

I meant to say rarely.
So your response to "You don't think things through enough" is "I meant to say something else"?

And how does that change what you meant at all? Where does that 'rarely' fit in?

Because I am pursing a case on someone it is scummy?
Apparently it is for me; apparently it means I'm scumbuddying and defending 121p. I feel that the same rules you apply to everyone else should apply to yourself.

Welcome to day one, the day where we have NO evidence except feelings and words, their is little logic in day one.
You are retarded.

You realise I only voted for him? do you know how meaningless one vote is? I don't use FoS's because they are stupid, I would much rather put my vote on who I think is the scummiest.
You realize he only suggested that we lynch her as a last resort, right? Do you know how meaningless the suggestion of a lynch is?

You said you were accusing me of being scum and then in the next post you say that you don't think I'm that scummy at all?
Yes, it certainly has nothing to do with the fact that I'm intentionally trying to harass you like I explicitly stated in that exact post you quoted. Good job on that one.

Jim, honest meta question here: were you born with any mental handicaps regarding communication? Because you're pretty terrible at it.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Though I would like to ask you, based on today's "evidence" who do you think is scum?
No one, really. There's nothing pointing strongly in anyone's direction. I'm suspicious of (in no order) you, bun, MoD, Dullahan, Naga, and Jenius, as well as all lurkers not mentioned.

As far as a lynch goes, I have no idea. No one has presented themselves as obviously scummy yet. I think Dullahan would be a safe lynch, if only because he has yet to really defend his actions satisfactorily and because all he fucking does is lurk and I swear to Christ I hate lurkers with a goddamn passion.

[jimbyob]

No one, really. There's nothing pointing strongly in anyone's direction. I'm suspicious of (in no order) you, bun, MoD, Dullahan, Naga, and Jenius, as well as all lurkers not mentioned.

As far as a lynch goes, I have no idea. No one has presented themselves as obviously scummy yet. I think Dullahan would be a safe lynch, if only because he has yet to really defend his actions satisfactorily and because all he fucking does is lurk and I swear to Christ I hate lurkers with a goddamn passion.

So basically you are equally suspicious of everyone :rolleyes:

[jimbyob]

Long post attempting to insult me.

I know their is no point in continuing with you if you are just going to throw insults my way.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

So basically you are equally suspicious of everyone :rolleyes:
Kind of, yes. It's day one. Day one is stupid.
I know their is no point in continuing with you if you are just going to throw insults my way.
u mad

Also, you're bad at communication. I don't know if this is a birth flaw, or an intentional flaw for this game because you're mafia. Sorry for pointing this out? But if it's the former it's something you should probably work on.

[121p]

thx scumbuddy sp for defending me.

lol, seriously, though, is shady the ONLY one that finds what jim is doing as suspicious? frick, he's voting for me for two reasons: 1) i defended shady and 2) i SUGGESTED that we vote for bun if we had no one to vote for.

here is the post where i allegedly was too defensive of shady, i'll let you decide for yourself if i was so vehement in my protection of him that it warranted suspicion:imo, i think you're reading into things a little too much, especially for day 1. i think shady was just voicing his opinions.

it was more of me discussing my thoughts, not really defending him? plus, if you read the thread, i posted this when pk stopped being suspicious of him. if sp was my scumbuddy and i wanted to defend him, wouldn't i do it when pk had (or seemingly had) serious accusations of him being scum? regardless, i think you're trying to turn an innocent comment into something that it's completely not. really though, does anyone else not feel this way?

oh, and for the billionth time here is my post about lynching bun. read it carefully, please, because this is the other half of why you decided to vote for me.

anyways, i don't think anyone's acting TOO scummy atm but i'm just gonna' come out and say that if we can't decide on someone to lynch we should lynch bun for the aforementioned reason that she is an awful player. sorry, bun.
let me remind everyone: i suggested we should vote for her if we didn't have anyone to vote for, which would be a very small possibility. if you'll notice, i didn't even VOTE for her. also, i'd like to ask why everyone (especially you, jim) seems so convinced that bun is town? i mean people have gone as far as saying that she is "practically confirmed townie"??? wtf? how are we so sure?

the post, i guess, that really caught my eye was jenius's:
I'm here to white night Jim.

I totally agree with Jim, and I think he's a similar player as I am. He seems to look at how people post and gauge reactions and gets gut feelings on who is or who isn't scummy (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I feel that bun is practically confirmed town at this point, I could be wrong, but I'd be really surprised if she wasn't, and buh? again, please enlighten me as to how you're so sure. and lol:I think that it is scummy as hell that numberp would vote for her. This extends to MoD too. you think it's scummy as hell that someone doesn't agree with you on who's town when there is absolutely NO evidence that she is/isn't?

You might point out that it was an "if no one else turns up" statement, but even if no one else turned up a no lynch would be better than voting for someone you honestly think is town. again, where did this general consensus come that she is town?

I'm also not sure why Shady is getting all up in Jim's face over this, he keeps saying he's unsure about how scummy 121p is but his actions basically make it seems like there's some sort of alliance. no, he's pointing out why jim is acting like a retard. i'm honestly surprised that more people haven't commented on it.

Ultimately though, I think I'm going to Vote: MoD. While 121p has specified he would like bun dead in the event no one more legitimate is found, mod has directly voted for her when they're are already a couple votes on her. Unless I'm miscounting, this puts her at 3 votes and halfway to lynch, which seems excessive given no concrete suspicion on her.again, you're voting for mod because he doesn't agree with you that bun is town. where is this evidence that she is?

[121p]

i would honestly like more opinions on this matter, does no on else find jims arguments for voting for me flimsy?

[121p]

lurker radar: dullahan, cara, and legendshark. what's your guys's opinion on things? who do you think is scum?

[jimbyob]

tl;dr you are both calling me a retard because you are scum and have to resort to insults to defend yourself :rolleyes:

[Clem]

Wait, what is the deadline, anyway?



If you guys want one, I can set one. Activity has been pretty good so far though.

[jimbyob]

Votecount please

[Clem]

Vote Count

bun(2)- LegendShark, Dullahan
ShadyPhoenix(1)- mrs_bun
121p(1)- jimbyob
PariahKing(1)- Shadow
Shadow(1)- PariahKing
Dullahan(1)- ShadyPhoenix
MoD(1)- Jenius
Not voting- Cara, MoD, Naga, 121p

If there are any errors with this vote count, please let me know.

[LegendShark]

lurker radar: dullahan, cara, and legendshark. what's your guys's opinion on things? who do you think is scum?

I actually don't think anyone is scum. Nor do I have an opinion. I hate day 1 sooo much.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

lurker radar: dullahan, cara, and legendshark. what's your guys's opinion on things? who do you think is scum?
Of those I'm really only suspicious of Dullahan, mostly because he's xxxcore lurking and trying to get someone killed. Killing a lurker isn't a bad idea on day one.
tl;dr you are both calling me a retard because you are scum and have to resort to insults to defend yourself :rolleyes:
You are either incredibly terrible town or really lazy mafia. The line between those two is often too blurry. Nothing you're doing is making logical sense from any perspective. If you were town, why would you stick to such a terrible, flimsy argument? If you were mafia, why would you make yourself so public?

Really, does no one besides myself and 121p (who the hell are you, by the way) find Jim's actions scummy?
If you guys want one, I can set one. Activity has been pretty good so far though.
Oh, I was just wondering if there was one, out of curiosity. Setting one to give an artificial limit on how much time we have might make our discussions more fruitful. Anyone else have an opinion?
Vote Count

bun(2)- LegendShark, Dullahan
ShadyPhoenix(2)- PariahKing, mrs_bun
121p(1)- jimbyob
PariahKing(1)- Shadow
Shadow(1)- PariahKing
Dullahan(1)- ShadyPhoenix
MoD(1)- Jenius
Not voting- Cara, MoD, Naga, 121p

If there are any errors with this vote count, please let me know.
1) lolwat, let's all vote for a different person please

2) I don't recall bun voting for me, and PK unvoted me for Shadow (you have him on here twice).

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

I actually don't think anyone is scum. Nor do I have an opinion. I hate day 1 sooo much.
ONLY SCUM WOULD SAY SUCH A THING

[LegendShark]

tl;dr you are both calling me a retard because you are scum and have to resort to insults to defend yourself :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure it was logical argument and then they added insult to injury.

And I am automatically suspicious of anyone who uses emoticons in mafia. Especially the roll eyes. They are simple tools used to goad "on the fence" people into believing what you are saying because they give the impression that you know what you are talking about and so sure of yourself that you're putting a smiley in your post.

Using the roll-eyes in your post and calling someone insulting automatically demonizes them in the eyes of the town, and I'm calling you scum.

Unvote: Bun (this was just a placeholder anyways)
Vote: Jim

[LegendShark]

ONLY SCUM WOULD SAY SUCH A THING

Ok good its a good thing I changed my opinion then.

[Jenius]

buh? again, please enlighten me as to how you're so sure. and lol: you think it's scummy as hell that someone doesn't agree with you on who's town when there is absolutely NO evidence that she is/isn't?
again, where did this general consensus come that she is town?

no, he's pointing out why jim is acting like a retard. i'm honestly surprised that more people haven't commented on it.

again, you're voting for mod because he doesn't agree with you that bun is town. where is this evidence that she is?

I just realized there's something that could easily explain the discrepancy here.

Are you actually a knew poster or just an undisclosed alt of someone? The name kinda made me think of +t but your posting styles don't match so I've got no one else.

The reason this is relevant is because I feel the reason why bun isn't scum is predominately because I've seen for bun post for long enough that her posting in this thread feels like she's probably town. I can't really cite evidence for it, but it's like when you can tell a friend is lying or something. Bun kinda wears everything on her sleeve so either she's being an incredibly good actress here or she's being honest, and I'm inclined to believe the latter, as is Jim, and probably anybody who would actually stop to think about it that's been around TS for long enough.

If you haven't been on TS for long, then my suspicion against you is removed, because realistically, you don't have the same base to compare to, so in your mind she really could be either scum or town. Just keep in mind that from my perspective (and Jim's) Bun is close to completely confirmed town simply because of her posts.

[MoD]

Jim is scum because he made a smiley.

What?

[MoD]

I guess I should elaborate:

Jim indeed appears a bit scummy. Namely, pointing the finger at people for reasons of "I have my own reasons" or "scumbuddying lolololol." Not because he's putting a smiley in his post.

[Dullahan]

You are either incredibly terrible town or really lazy mafia. The line between those two is often too blurry. Nothing you're doing is making logical sense from any perspective. If you were town, why would you stick to such a terrible, flimsy argument? If you were mafia, why would you make yourself so public?
Maybe he explodes or something when he is killed? or has an immunity

[LegendShark]

I guess I should elaborate:

Jim indeed appears a bit scummy. Namely, pointing the finger at people for reasons of "I have my own reasons" or "scumbuddying lolololol." Not because he's putting a smiley in his post.

He has made multiple smileys in fact. To me, its more than that, its the way he wrights off entire posts with a smiley. It's a tactic to goad the town into thinking the same way you do, and quite frankly it's annoying.

Someone gave him a valid argument and says he is acting retarded, so he just latched onto the last part and said, "lol you insulted me so you can't make a logical post :rolleyes:"

A) This completely ignores the argument (obviously)
B) It demonizes shady and 121p because they called him retarded (an effort to manipulate the town's thoughts
C) To top it all off, he rolls his eyes, which does to things. First off, this makes it seem like shady is had such an obviously bad argument that a response isn't even needed. Second, it encourages others to think the same thing because a smiley would be the first thing that another player sees of that post.

The emoticon is just an instrument to goad the town into doing what he wants them to do. Which is not think he is scum.

He isn't just scum because he used a smiley. Anyone can do that. :teach:

You see?

It's the way he uses it which infuriates me and makes him seem scummy.

[MoD]

I understand the whole mindfuck thing, but kinda just think it's more that he's retarded than anything else. But I don't know, I haven't seen how he posts in other mafias. Anyone deny/confirm that he posts alot of smileys in every mafia?

[Dullahan]

I understand the whole mindfuck thing, but kinda just think it's more that he's retarded than anything else. But I don't know, I haven't seen how he posts in other mafias. Anyone deny/confirm that he posts alot of smileys in every mafia?

This man is smart :teach:



oshi

[LegendShark]

Dullahan I hate you so much.

[Dullahan]

Dullahan I hate you so much.

:V

[121p]

dullahan, you seem to be posting a lot without saying anything. why don't you tell us your thoughts on what's happened so far?

[jimbyob]

LegendShark is probs scum since he just votes anyone that he wants to and he is always keeping his vote on someone.

[LegendShark]

I had my vote on bun but was going to take it off if she was near getting lynched. Also, I voted for you because I thought you were scum, not to just have a vote on someone.

[121p]

LegendShark is probs scum since he just votes anyone that he wants to and he is always keeping his vote on someone.

how does voting anyone he wants to make him scummy?

anyways, nothing's changed my mind about you, so vote jimbyob

[jimbyob]

I had my vote on bun but was going to take it off if she was near getting lynched.

Why? for the sake of keeping your vote on someone?

[jimbyob]

Eh, lynch me if you want, I'm doing this for a favour to Clem anyway, but when I come up town please lynch shady and 121p.

[LegendShark]

Why? for the sake of keeping your vote on someone?

Yes you got me.

Actually this is surprisingly accurate. But I thought that Day 1 would be a fast lynch of bun and then we could get some information. I actually approve of how this day 1 worked out, because it wasn't completely random and we had some stuff to vote off of.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

but when I come up town please lynch shady and 121p.
You know this is a pretty scummy thing to say, right? It completely negates the merit of our argument and turns things into "If someone lynches a townie they're obviously scum" which is horrible logic. This is an extremely poor attempt at defending yourself, and if anything, is the final straw in convincing me you're our most promising lynch choice.

Unvote, vote: jimbyob

[MoD]

Goddamnit jim.

Vote: Jimbybob

[Clem]

bun(1)- Dullahan
ShadyPhoenix(2)- PariahKing, mrs_bun
121p(1)- jimbyob
PariahKing(1)- Shadow
Shadow(1)- PariahKing
MoD(1)- Jenius
jimbyob(4)-ShadyPhoenix, LegendShark, 121p, MoD
Not voting- Cara, Naga

With twelve alive, its seven to lynch.
If there are any errors with this vote count, please let me know.

[jimbyob]

You know this is a pretty scummy thing to say, right? It completely negates the merit of our argument and turns things into "If someone lynches a townie they're obviously scum" which is horrible logic. This is an extremely poor attempt at defending yourself, and if anything, is the final straw in convincing me you're our most promising lynch choice.

Unvote, vote: jimbyob

Lol whatever you say shady.

BTW I'm Masked Gorgon - Town Jailer

I win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

You guys didn't ask for a claim when you obviously should have.

[121p]

whats a town jailer do?

[Clem]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=18692412&postcount=80

Its in there. Like all the roles in this game.

[121p]

masked gorgon doesn't seem like a very towny char, btw.

[121p]

i'm assuming you mean jailkeeper, then.

Goddamnit jim.

Vote: Jimbybob

also, this seems suspicious.

what does everyone think of jim's roleclaim?

[Jenius]

I think the role he is claiming is realistic because I also have a watered down role, but realistically just because the role is honest doesn't mean the alignment is, though I personally don't think Jim is scum to begin with.

However, the fact that he blued town jailer makes me inclined to believe he's just town because clem is the only mafia I've been in where he pm'ed us colored role alignment names. And before someone bitches at me for flat out saying this rather than hinting at it, last time I ran into a similar situation it turned into a clusterfuck because most people were terrible at linking stuff to their own pm's.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Lol whatever you say shady.
LOL WHATEVER YOU SAY JIM

BTW I'm Masked Gorgon - Town Jailer
LOL WHATEVER YOU SAY JIM

I win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
LOL WHATEVER YOU SAY JIM

You guys didn't ask for a claim when you obviously should have.
LOL WHATEVER YOU SAY JIM

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

also, this seems suspicious.
It does, indeed.

what does everyone think of jim's roleclaim?
It seems reasonable enough, even if the person with the role is incredibly unreasonable.

However, the fact that he blued town jailer makes me inclined to believe he's just town because clem is the only mafia I've been in where he pm'ed us colored role alignment names. And before someone bitches at me for flat out saying this rather than hinting at it, last time I ran into a similar situation it turned into a clusterfuck because most people were terrible at linking stuff to their own pm's.
Ah, you're right, though I suppose it could be argued that even the mafia has blue colored names.

Unvote for now since Jim is pretty close to the edge and recent evidence counterbalances the fact that he's a raging idiot sometimes.

[jimbyob]

I'm still waiting for someone to notice something else about that post that will confirm them town in my eyes.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

I'm still waiting for someone to notice something else about that post that will confirm them town in my eyes.
I'm fairly certain I see what you're talking about but I'm hesitant to explicitly state it.

... can I/we do that? It seems too ... meta-y to be fair.

[jimbyob]

First come first serve, if you see it say it, there is no way scum would have it in their PM.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

First come first serve, if you see it say it, there is no way scum would have it in their PM.
Third line.

[jimbyob]

Looks like shady is town

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Third line.
Which is to say that it is grammatically identical to the one I got, barring a subject change.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Looks like shady is town
best friends afterall

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

Also, as a note, you should probably unvote jim now, because he's pretty much 100% town. I would think the same applies to Jenius and myself, but that's a haughty thing to say.

Fuck it, I'm a haughty guy. I'm town, eat it, bitches.

[Jenius]

I'm waiting for the three of us to get modkilled.

[Cara]

Sorry for being a bit out of this game, I'm working on 4 mafias at once. :boggle:

[121p]

goddamnit you guys you fucked it up.

i'm the owner of a small business :rolleyes:

[121p]

I'm waiting for the three of us to get modkilled.

yeah i'm p sure this is not allowed

[Jenius]

I haven't posted here much either. Joining 2 games was a bad idea, 4 seems absurd.

[Jenius]

goddamnit you guys you fucked it up.

i'm the owner of a small business :rolleyes:

Okay who are you because that was an awesome game.

[Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician]

I, personally, blame Jenius because he is a faggot.

[Clem]

Re: Whatever the fuck you guys just did

Its partly my fault for not having a sample role PM in the first post. I'm not going to modkill anyone for that though.

[PariahKing]

Well, as we confirmed three townies, this'll be a lot easier.

Personally I'm a vanilla grizzly bear.

[MoD]

I see. Righto then.

Unvote: Jim

So are we pretty much doing a mass roleclaim now?

I'm Cunning Advisor, a vanilla townie.

[PariahKing]

Seems like a good idea to me with 3 confirmed town.

[PariahKing]

[center]http://www.magiccorporation.com/scan/portal_three_kingdoms/cunning_advisor.jpg[/center

So a black card with "cunning" in the title with a malicious effect and actual text that could be something negative like roleblocking that looks much more fitting to the mafia is in fact, a vanilla town?

I for one - who claimed first - am surprised with the contrast to this.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MTG6TH/grizzly_bears.jpg

Unvote Shadow, Vote MoD

[PariahKing]

I'm going to be less active due to various stuffs. Sorry. I think my MoD analysis is straight on though.

[MoD]

Well considering I've never been a Magic player and didn't even know a card called Cunning Advisor existed... :V

I'm pretty sure most people on this forum are aware that I never got into Magic other than a couple casual games guided by a more experienced player.

[MoD]

Just realized how retarded that post was.

Fuck you Naga.

[Jenius]

From hereafter, people are probably going to lie about their cards now though. I however, felt mod was scummy before (as you could see by my vote on him. I had a post on it several pages back) so I think I'll continue to leave it on him.

[MoD]

*Clem.

Seriously. Way to make a roleclaim suicidal to me.

[MoD]

And PK... you're a fucking grizzly bear! That sounds more scummy to me!

Am I right???

[MoD]

I do want to clarify, however... I was honest about my claim as a vanilla townie. I probably wouldn't have made a roleclaim had I known what that particular card was all about.

[PariahKing]

Don't think it's actually necessary to continue claiming in retrospect. MoD is obv lynch.

[MoD]

Meh. I obviously have no way to prove myself, so fuck it. Enjoy losing a townie.

[LegendShark]

Idk, I'm a pretty powerful rare 6/6 vanilla townie, so anything is possible.

Of course my role is white so you wouldn't want to lynch me anyway.

[Jenius]

So basically what you're saying is you're akroma.

[LegendShark]

So basically what you're saying is you're akroma.

No.

Upon looking back on my card, it's actually terrible, but it's still rare and a 6/6, which gives PK's argument less strength, assuming I am town.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=4148&type=card

[LegendShark]

You can't tell it's rare from the pic, but I checked gatherer, it is.