PANDEMIC MAFIA - DAY THREE - CARNAGE

[Naga]

I'm looking for 12 players. Game will start when we have 12, and when I'm ready.


1. Cara
2. Joker
4. MoD
7. bun
11. Jenius



3. Clem, Town-aligned Doctor
5. Dullahan, Town-aligned Doctor
6. Ashi, Town-aligned vanilla townie
8. Shadow, Town-aligned vanilla townie
9. CP, Town-aligned Cop
10. LS, Town-aligned vanilla townie
12. Skydin, Town-aligned vanilla townie



1. 121p
2. ShadyPhoenix

[Naga]

I wonder if editing is disabled for this forum.

Anyways, this is an entirely new game, with no help from the PKdex. Flavour will go up later.

[Cara]

Is this about a virus that can't infect madagascar?

If so in.

[jok3r]

Is this about a virus that can't infect madagascar?

If so in.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9173/1216234389134xn2.jpg

also, in.

[Clem]

/in

[MoD]

/in

[Dullahan]

een

[Ashi]

I would enjoy playing.

[mrs_bun]

In, as long as my role includes flipping out at some little thing and quitting by day three. Also, I would like to be town if possible, because I never am. :(

[mrs_bun]

OMG ASHI JINX!

[Ashi]

OMG ASHI JINX!

I spend my days trying to subvert your posts.

I think of nothing else.

[Clem]

I wonder if editing is disabled for this forum.

Anyways, this is an entirely new game, with no help from the PKdex. Flavour will go up later.

I think you need to be in the GM user group to edit. You should ask an admin like CP or Cara.

CP: Should I start my game as well?

[Shadow]

/in

I missed the last two. :(

[Cee Pee]

I wonder if editing is disabled for this forum.
It is unless you have GM powers. You can sign up for it, and MoD did so apparently for the lulz. I'll give you the powers anyway.

@Clem: Yes.

/in btw.

[LegendShark]

IN

[Shadow]

IN

I bet your role has you to try to spread Judaism to all of us.

[LegendShark]

I bet your role has you to try to spread Judaism to all of us.

May god bless and keep the mafia... far away from the town!

[Shadow]

May god bless and keep the mafia... far away from the town!
Juden swine. :mad:

[Naga]

STOP RUINING MY THREAD

[Naga]

please

[LegendShark]

http://www.ushmm.org/propaganda/assets/images/500x/cover-poisonous-mushroom.jpg

[LegendShark]

o sorry

[Naga]

STOP FAGGING UP MY THREAD LS

[Jenius]

I'll be In I think. But I can't promise the best activity in the world due to my schedule.

[Naga]

One more person!

[Skydin]

I should join this.

My access will likely be sporadic until sunday/monday however.

[Naga]

Signups full.

Sending roles.

Day one starts soon.

[Naga]

The Source wakes up all living together in a small, idyllic town isolated from the rest of the world. It's a beautiful day, not a cloud in the sky. Fields of grain rustle in the wind as the sun peaks over the mountains in the distance. What could go wrong today?

It's Day One. 7 to lynch.

(Oh, and to those who got two PMs, that's me being retarded, nothing to do with the game)

[Skydin]

Ah seven, interesting number, mystic. a good omen to begin with, no?

[Dullahan]

Ah seven, interesting number, mystic. a good omen to begin with, no?

Nothing mystical about a pandemic :B

[Skydin]

There is mysticism in all things, for in reality all mysticism is is a manner by which one learns to look beyond the surface of things. A common theme in ALL mafia games, wouldn't you agree?

[jok3r]

a good, a philosophizer. this will be a joyous game, indeed.

[Cee Pee]

Seven votes is just a simple majority in a game with twelve players.

Other than that, yay, day one. The flavor text makes me think of a movie whose name I can't remember. But other than that, is there anything to discuss?

[Clem]

18 red 16 green 9 black

R/G/B
7 6 4

Vote: mrs_bun

We were both scum in the last two games we played.

[Shadow]

Here by the sea and sand, nothing ever goes as planned.

[Jenius]

Poasting to say I'm here, but I'm also at work and might not have internet access at home :V.

As an aside, what's up with the R/G/B thing guile?

[Naga]

Official Vote Count

bun (1): Clem

[MoD]

hay guyz

So right away we have two posts of interest: Skydin's and Shadow's. Any ideas?

[Jenius]

Skydin's looks like it could easily just be a skydin post in response to Naga's. Shadow's does feel kind of out of the blue though. It kinda reminds me of one of PK's thematic mafias where he gave people instructions on weird posting styles in their role. I think I had a character that was terrified/paranoid about fruits once. Maybe naga made some people be pseudo philosophical?

Also I still thing the rbg thing in guile (clem's) post was kinda odd. But if some people were given posting style related roles, that could explain this too.

[MoD]

Shadow's post is really the only reason I pointed it out, otherwise I would've just assumed it was Skydin fo realz. An alternative explanation is that Shadow is just quoting Blue Oyster Cult lyrics. :V

[Jenius]

Shadow's post is really the only reason I pointed it out, otherwise I would've just assumed it was Skydin fo realz. An alternative explanation is that Shadow is just quoting Blue Oyster Cult lyrics. :V

Quick google reveals it is indeed lyrics of the musical variety, so way for the reference to go over our heads :V.

[MoD]

More like yay for Shadow being way too predictable.

[Shadow]

Finally, you niggers got me. :rolleyes:

but yeah, I was just posting to make it so I had posted in the thread and it happened to spark discussion! :V

[Jenius]

Clearly you're scummy for trying to confuse people with lyrics.

This can be the only truth.

[Dullahan]

Clearly you're scummy for trying to confuse people with lyrics.

This can be the only truth.

Or perhaps you are for such an accusation.

:V

[Jenius]

I like your train of thought, I should probably fos myself.

However, this does bring up the issue of what do we do day 1? We already got a seemingly random vote on Bun, but other than random voting, I don't really see what we can do. There's not much to go on.

Maybe wait it out for a bit to let people who haven't been on post and then hit a lurker or something?

[Shadow]

Why are you stalling the lynch, Jenius?

[Dullahan]

Why are you stalling the lynch, Jenius?

he doesnt want to lynch fellow mafia.


Vote: bun

[Jenius]

Obviously :V.

Well I just meant that should we really bandwagon on a random vote immediately? It's not a terrible D1 plan, but maybe getting rid of people who don't post could be a fruitful effort too. Though, if mafia knew we were simply killing lurkers I guess that'd be a really easy way for them to dodge the first couple days worth of votes.

I dunno, I don't really see anything wrong with Lynching bun (if anything, from what I've seen with previous games, it might be a good idea to have her gone) but at the same time a random vote seems like it has odds in favor of us losing a town before the game even really starts, which could be painful. Though it does seem better than abstaining.

[Shadow]

um, nobody gets any information the first day. So, how are we going to decide who is town or scum?

Are you retarded or something?

[Jenius]

Well nobody gets information, but I don't see how waiting to see which people are obviously lurkers and which ones are posting is necessarily a detrimental idea either.

It's not like you've thrown in a vote against bun yet, so on some level it's clear you're hesitant to kill someone asap.

Besides, in some games, the day 1 vote shows a lot about players. In Pk's game, the way Van and Kant played it, it tilted their hand almost immediately. So there is some information to be had in getting everyone to start posting.

[Shadow]

Cause I'm thinking about voting for you. That's why.

What's stupid is that lurkers can be town or scum. :rolleyes:

I don't see what you're trying to accomplish.

[Jenius]

Lurkers can be town or scum but in past games they can bring the game to it's knees and cause indecisiveness and lack of voting. Dull's game played out like this and mafia's win could probably be tied closely to it. If a random vote is all we have to go off of day 1, then it could be a smart move to randomly select from the lurkers, though this does have the inherent flaw that scum planning to lurk would probably just go active to get around this.

So what I'm trying to say here is that I don't really have a problem with lynching bun, but I'm also kind of curious why you're so adverse to waiting to see if more information becomes available via people posting. A lot of games have had major stuff happen Day 1 that swung the game in town or scum's favor.

[Clem]

Poasting to say I'm here, but I'm also at work and might not have internet access at home :V.

As an aside, what's up with the R/G/B thing guile?


Also I still thing the rbg thing in guile (clem's) post was kinda odd. But if some people were given posting style related roles, that could explain this too.

I did a draft and needed to work on the mana base. So I typed it up and posted it here for fun.

[Clem]

ebwodp: Jenius, if you have no problem lynching bun, why aren't you voting for her?

[Jenius]

ebwodp: Jenius, if you have no problem lynching bun, why aren't you voting for her?

I believe I made it clear in my conversation with Shadow that I personally would prefer to wait but that I also acknowledge a randomvote on day 1 is one of the only feasible options. That is to say I don't find it particularly scummy that you and dull have voted for her, but at the moment I'm going to abstain a bit.

[Dullahan]

I believe I made it clear in my conversation with Shadow that I personally would prefer to wait but that I also acknowledge a randomvote on day 1 is one of the only feasible options. That is to say I don't find it particularly scummy that you and dull have voted for her, but at the moment I'm going to abstain a bit.

Its Bun though. She's ALWAYS mafia. :V

[LegendShark]

So what I'm trying to say here is that I don't really have a problem with lynching bun, but I'm also kind of curious why you're so adverse to waiting to see if more information becomes available via people posting. A lot of games have had major stuff happen Day 1 that swung the game in town or scum's favor.

Games can have stuff on Day 1 that swing a game into the town's favor as well. It is a tad more unlikely because there are more town than mafia, but really there's a chance of anything happening on day one, and "Lynch Lurkers" means absolutely nothing because there isn't even any information to post about.

On day 1 it is a lot easier to have nothing to say. IE, Shadow's first post. Lurking is natural.

[Shadow]

Lynching a lurker is still a random vote.

[LegendShark]

Lynching a lurker is still a random vote.

Not really. Its still going on some logic, instead of being completely random.

The logic is just bad.

[Shadow]

Yeah, I suppose your right.

Side convo: impressed by my "knowledge" of Jewish holidays? :V

[Jenius]

Lynching a lurker is still a random vote.

I don't recall directly proposing to lynch a lurker and even gave reasons as to why it would be a flawed approach, so I'm not entirely sure why you keep focusing on this. You'll note I didn't simply vote for someone who has not yet posted.

[Shadow]

oh right, you're going for the "lets wait until we have info" approach.

You're for no lynch.

[Cara]

This is by far the best Day One on Teh Source ever.

[Ashi]

I also agree to abstain from a lynching, the current logic is "might as well kill something." There are obviously special roles so killing random people isn't really in our best interest.

[Shadow]

Instead of lynching somebody who is inactive, or random, why not an idiot?

Ashi for example.

[Ashi]

blaarrgh my name is shadow and I love ad hominems

Yeah, cause I am the first person to recommend abstaining from lynching a lurker. Jenius is supporting that side, although also trying to be the voice of reason for all possible avenues, and if I read LegendShark right he also is leaning against it.

Nothing to go off of on Day 1, so pretty much everyone is lurking, unless they came up with random stuff to post or are trying to kill Bun.

[Shadow]

To be fair to Jenius he is saying that he'd prefer to wait until everybody posted. Not that he wasn't ins support of lynch.

It's better for town to take a shot in the dark than none at all.

[Jenius]

To be fair to Jenius he is saying that he'd prefer to wait until everybody posted. Not that he wasn't ins support of lynch.

It's better for town to take a shot in the dark than none at all.

Yes I'd agree with this, no vote is just missing an opportunity. I do think at some point we should kill something, I was just kinda hoping something would come up. Though I admit it's unlikely.

[Jenius]

Actually, what's the normal percentage for mafia/townie on day 1? Like 25ish percent or so? Because if there's actually a really small amount, a random lynch that's likely to hit someone in town might be a statistically bad idea.

[Skydin]

The stars are pointing towards bun, but I am sadly afraid that I must disagree with them in this matter, for truely what is their light but the afterechos of their deaths only now reaching this mortal sphere. Thus, I will refrain from voting for a small time. Very small, from the looks of things.

[Jenius]

The stars are pointing towards bun, but I am sadly afraid that I must disagree with them in this matter, for truely what is their light but the afterechos of their deaths only now reaching this mortal sphere. Thus, I will refrain from voting for a small time. Very small, from the looks of things.

Yeaaaahhh, about that.

As an aside, the Internets are still not functioning at my apartment (a tech rep will be here Monday!) so other than my sporadic weekend work visits (which might actually be most of Sunday and will be some of Saturday) I won't be on much.

Sorry bout that.

[LegendShark]

Yeah, I suppose your right.

Side convo: impressed by my "knowledge" of Jewish holidays? :V

Yes actually.

[jok3r]

Its Bun though. She's ALWAYS mafia. :V

but she asked specifically not to be mafia. I don't think naga would really try to piss off or disappoint a player like that, tbh. at least, i don't think she's a good day1 vote for the reason. really, taking previous games into consideration isn't a good tactic at all unless my two previous mafia experiences really haven't shown me that mafia are always mafia. i was mafia in one and town in one. oh, and the good source one which doesn't count for shit.

clem seems like the most eager to pass day 1 by so quickly. His logic is also... well, not really logic but a guess unless he's trying to completely cover for himself. I'm suspicious of anyone trying to jump the day1 lynch so hard, but i'm specifically FoS: Clem.

[Clem]

Instead of lynching somebody who is inactive, or random, why not an idiot?

Ashi for example.

I agree. Unvote: bun, Vote: Ashi.

[jok3r]

Actually, what's the normal percentage for mafia/townie on day 1? Like 25ish percent or so? Because if there's actually a really small amount, a random lynch that's likely to hit someone in town might be a statistically bad idea.

also, this. i'm really only suspicious of clem right now, but will probably abstain unless something ridiculous comes up or 6 other votes point at clem.

[Clem]

also, this. i'm really only suspicious of clem right now, but will probably abstain unless something ridiculous comes up or 6 other votes point at clem.

Your suspicious of me, but won't vote unless others are already doing so? Why?

[Dullahan]

Your suspicious of me, but won't vote unless others are already doing so? Why?
He must like bandwagon-ing.

[jok3r]

Your suspicious of me, but won't vote unless others are already doing so? Why?
I don't really want to vote day 1, especially with nothing eventful happening. Your actions are about as close to vote-worthy as I've seen and still are not that suspicious. However, I will bandwagon if I see fit. As of now, I don't. That's not to say ludicrous other accusations won't help me to see fit.
He must like bandwagon-ing.

Something like that. :rolleyes:

[Shadow]

uhh. considering voting ashi.

vote ashi

[Clem]

I'm honestly surprised no one has brought up the "Guile wagon" yet. I'd of thought I'd have scored several random votes from that alone by now.

[MoD]

...

[Cee Pee]

but she asked specifically not to be mafia. I don't think naga would really try to piss off or disappoint a player like that, tbh. at least, i don't think she's a good day1 vote for the reason. really, taking previous games into consideration isn't a good tactic at all unless my two previous mafia experiences really haven't shown me that mafia are always mafia. i was mafia in one and town in one. oh, and the good source one which doesn't count for shit.
I agree that "bun is mafia because she's always been one" is a bad reasoning. It's metagaming is some sense. But you're saying "bun is not mafia because she's always been one". If Naga isn't a bastard mod and/or isn't easily persuaded by such requests, then we can assume he did role and alignment distributions randomly. So I don't approve either of these opinions.

Anyway. Lynch a lurker or lynch an idiot? Doesn't bun fit both descriptions? :V Though I'd really like to see her post. If she says "I'm the mafia queen", then we know enough. But at least posting would help.

I don't really like the idea of No Lynch right now, and it makes me sort of suspicious of Ashi, though a mafia would know the slim chance of the town succeeding in killing a mafiate. But it's still a risk they might not be willing to take, so, FoS: Ashi for now.

[LegendShark]

I'm honestly surprised no one has brought up the "Guile wagon" yet. I'd of thought I'd have scored several random votes from that alone by now.

I thought about it actually, but I didn't have time to post... or something like that.

The sheer fact that you are practically begging for votes now kind of confuses me toward your alignment.

Also, it wasn't really a bandwagon as there were no previous votes on Ashi. ;)

[Jenius]

Anyway. Lynch a lurker or lynch an idiot? Doesn't bun fit both descriptions? :V Though I'd really like to see her post. If she says "I'm the mafia queen", then we know enough. But at least posting would help.

This is actually one of the primary reasons I was considering simply bandwagoning my vote in against bun. Realistically, bun is either towny or mafia.

If she's mafia, she tends to be less suspicious than other people because everyone just posts "I can't tell whether that was bun being scummy or just her normal somewhat ditzy self", which is dangerous. Bun's natural slips and such make it harder to spot her as actual mafia because one might think it's just bun being bun.

If bun is town, I could easily see her sporadic and sometimes moody nature being disruptive for everyone at times.

So realistically, if I wanted anyone dead on d1 with no evidence to or for mafia, in my book bun is a pretty good bet. But I mean she could be the cop or doctor or vig or something too, so it seems dangerous to just lynch her other than just cause.

[Jenius]

So realistically, if I wanted anyone dead on d1 with no evidence to or for mafia, in my book bun is a pretty good bet. But I mean she could be the cop or doctor or vig or something too, so it seems dangerous to just lynch her other than just cause.
The last line was supposed to be "for no reason other than just cause. "

[jok3r]

umm, bad news guys. just moved into our new house and won't have internet until June 6. That said, I also work every day this week :( but should be able to find campus computing labs to check in on this thread at least.

Onto the topic:

bun obviously has done nothing suspicious. she's done....well....nothing. it is worrisome, but i don't think it's the worst. I think we can definitely use our votes for something a little more than "lynch the lurker." now that i'm thinking more about ashi, he (she?) is starting to look suspicious to me, also, if just for acting dumb.

i'm still also a little suspicious of clem, but my only reasoning for him is somewhat useless on a day 1 scenario. he's had a vote on someone the longest, but a decent reason for half the time.

[Shadow]

okay, so we're metagaming somebody who hasn't posted in the thread yet. :rolleyes:

Can I vote for two people?

[MoD]

Can someone tell me what exactly it is about Ashi that is suspicious?

Also, I think the bigger problem with bun is that the chances of her being Mafia in three games in a row are pretty slim. Unlikely... but possible. Jenius gave some pretty good reasons to want to hit her as well.

[LegendShark]

Jenius gave some pretty good reasons to want to hit her as well.

:rip:

I wouldn't think that a mafiate would seriously go on a no-lynch platorm, when it can be a useful tool for the mafia as well, since there is a great chance of hitting town. Even though it is just as stupid for the town to do, it is even stupider for the mafia to do. In addition, it draws attention because its such a stupid thing to do, something mafia would not want.

I vote: shadow for trying to get everyone to vote for ashi.

[Cara]

So, basically lynch bun because she is a terrible player?

Considering the worst she can do in most roles is cause herself to be lynched, what is the problem?

[LegendShark]

Who seriously wants to vote bun for having a history of being mafia and fucking herself over? Stop arguing about that. You're all retarded.

[Shadow]

:rip:

I wouldn't think that a mafiate would seriously go on a no-lynch platorm, when it can be a useful tool for the mafia as well, since there is a great chance of hitting town. Even though it is just as stupid for the town to do, it is even stupider for the mafia to do. In addition, it draws attention because its such a stupid thing to do, something mafia would not want.

I vote: shadow for trying to get everyone to vote for ashi.

Mafia benefits from a lynch of town and from no lynch at all because no mafia dies. There is a chance that mafia will die from a random lynch though so mafia doesn't want a lynch.

Why me? I'm trying to lynch an idiot rather than a lurker because there is no good reason to lynch a luker.

Juden.

[LegendShark]

Mafia benefits from a lynch of town and from no lynch at all because no mafia dies. There is a chance that mafia will die from a random lynch though so mafia doesn't want a lynch.
There is a chance that town will die if there is a lynch. It makes more sense for town to want a no lynch because there is a bigger chance for town to die than mafia.

Why me? I'm trying to lynch an idiot rather than a lurker because there is no good reason to lynch a luker.
There are too many idiots. This strategy would never work.

Juden.

Seriously thats getting old...

gook.

[Shadow]

I don't remember where I read it but somebody had research why town wants to lynch on day one no matter what.

Why not lynch somebody who had been doing a shitty job so far then?

And you got the wrong race. Try again.

[LegendShark]

Jap?

[Naga]

VOTE COUNT

Shadow (1): LegendShark
Ashi (1): Clem

No deadline yet. Might have to enforce one soon.

[LegendShark]

Charlie?

[LegendShark]

I should have just gone with the universal "Rice-Eater"...

[Naga]

Yo, Shadow and LS.

Shut the fuck up.

[Shadow]

"chick" was the word.

[MoD]

FoS: Shadow for getting really defensive after being voted.

[Shadow]

Should I be jovial about the fact I attracted a vote?

[Jenius]

I never got the "defending yourself is scummy" thing. I mean what's someone supposed to do, say "thank you sir, may I have another?".

What if shadow is cop/doctor/vig and feels it would be terrible for the town to have himself lynched, would it not then be a good idea to say "hay, no don't vote for me."

Not that I don't think Shadow has been a bit suspicious in his zeal to get someone killed, but Clem for example would be more guilty of this, throwing the first vote out against Bun then going after Ashi from a mere suggestion.

Though it's questionable whether it's more scummy to change one's vote so readily or if it's more scummy to imply that other people should vote for someone but to not do so himself.

[Jenius]

Actually, on inspection, I find Shadow's overall behavior to be pretty scummy for reasons listed in my previous post.

Vote: Shadow

Also, I will once again be returning home from work, internet may be restored Monday so hopefully I'll be more active then.

[Shadow]

Um, I did vote somebody if you're trying to suggest that it's scummy for me to say that I want people to lynch and then not vote for anybody.

Is it really scummy that I believe somebody should be lynched? Quite a few people have said that we should wait or possible no lynch and I don't really see anybody arguing my side so I feel like I needed to argue it.

And, obviously I don't want to get voted for. :rolleyes: Nor does anybody else so why do I need to say "don't vote for me".

[Clem]

What the hell Jenius? That was the quickest double take I've ever seen.

[Ashi]

Looking for content to post so I don't get branded a lurker.

I still think lynching randoms is a retarded idea, but have noticed a curious relationship between Shadow and Clem.

A few pages back, when Shadow and Jenius were arguing:

Instead of lynching somebody who is inactive, or random, why not an idiot?

Ashi for example.

A few posts later -

I agree. Unvote: bun, Vote: Ashi.

5 or so more posts -

uhh. considering voting ashi.

vote ashi

Aside from that, they've also backed each other up on various arguments, one of them being right above this post where Clem says
What the hell Jenius? That was the quickest double take I've ever seen. in response to Jenius voting Shadow. The other during lynching bun/random on the 2nd/3rd page. The obvious counter to this is that when Clem voted for Bun on the second page, Shadow didn't follow in a vote of his own. But he did, however, defend the decision until he decided lynching me was a better option, and Clem followed.

[Clem]

Looking for content to post so I don't get branded a lurker.

I still think lynching randoms is a retarded idea, but have noticed a curious relationship between Shadow and Clem.

A few pages back, when Shadow and Jenius were arguing:



A few posts later -



5 or so more posts -



Aside from that, they've also backed each other up on various arguments, one of them being right above this post where Clem says
in response to Jenius voting Shadow. The other during lynching bun/random on the 2nd/3rd page. The obvious counter to this is that when Clem voted for Bun on the second page, Shadow didn't follow in a vote of his own. But he did, however, defend the decision until he decided lynching me was a better option, and Clem followed.

Two players both think your an idiot and therefore worth lynching. You might want to look in to fixing this problem.

[Ashi]

Two players both think your an idiot and therefore worth lynching. You might want to look in to fixing this problem.

Easy there, killer! You'd think I raped your family with the way you're reacting.

Just like your buddy Shadow, ad hominems seem to be the only argument you understand, attacking any disagreeable post in a torrent of baseless aggression. Keep in mind, I never specifically said you two were Mafia. The evidence I provided is more likely a coincidence, however it is suspicious, and seeing what others thought is a nice way to keep the thread moving.

[Clem]

Easy there, killer! You'd think I raped your family with the way you're reacting.

Just like your buddy Shadow, ad hominems seem to be the only argument you understand, attacking any disagreeable post in a torrent of baseless aggression. Keep in mind, I never specifically said you two were Mafia. The evidence I provided is more likely a coincidence, however it is suspicious, and seeing what others thought is a nice way to keep the thread moving.

Well this is The Source. Its like the only place ad homs won't get you in trouble with a mod. I like to get away with it when I can. That said, I realize I acted in a rude way and I'm sorry if I offended you. If I could edit that post, I would. Staying up till 4:00 PM makes a guy a little less likely to watch what he says on internet message boards. I'll try to avoid it in the future.

[Ashi]

No problem. I don't have that thin of skin, and I don't take anything said here personally/seriously. Calling it out was just an effective counter-argument.

I was a inflammatory/sarcastic in mine as well, so I am at fault as well. My apologies.

[Shadow]

Aside from that, they've also backed each other up on various arguments, one of them being right above this post where Clem says
in response to Jenius voting Shadow. The other during lynching bun/random on the 2nd/3rd page. The obvious counter to this is that when Clem voted for Bun on the second page, Shadow didn't follow in a vote of his own. But he did, however, defend the decision until he decided lynching me was a better option, and Clem followed.

I didn't vote bun because I've been arguing the entire time that lynching a lurker doesn't do anything and that I don't support it.

@Naga: I had voted for Ashi but you didn't get it on the official vote count. I think that's why Jenius was criticizing me for proposing a lynch without casting a vote of my own.

[Jenius]

What the hell Jenius? That was the quickest double take I've ever seen.

I'm not sure why, in the first part of the post I explained that I didn't think Shadow being defensive was scummy, in the second part of the post I listed other reasons I felt shadow was scummy. The end result is I felt shadow was scummy.


@Naga: I had voted for Ashi but you didn't get it on the official vote count. I think that's why Jenius was criticizing me for proposing a lynch without casting a vote of my own.

Oh, my bad. Since you actually voted for Ashi then my original complaint is somewhat null and void. My apologies.

Unvote: Shadow

Seeing continued posts on the matter, Clem's behavior does arouse my suspicion though and while I'll think about it a bit longer before casting my vote I believe that's where it will lie by the end of the day. If clem turned up scum, I think shadow would naturally follow in suspicion, and given the choice, I'd rather lose Clem than Shadow (no offense meant, I've just seen shadow play in more games so I know he knows how to play mafia). So lynching Clem seems like a good idea at the moment.

[Clem]

I'm not sure why, in the first part of the post I explained that I didn't think Shadow being defensive was scummy, in the second part of the post I listed other reasons I felt shadow was scummy. The end result is I felt shadow was scummy.



Oh, my bad. Since you actually voted for Ashi then my original complaint is somewhat null and void. My apologies.

Unvote: Shadow

Seeing continued posts on the matter, Clem's behavior does arouse my suspicion though and while I'll think about it a bit longer before casting my vote I believe that's where it will lie by the end of the day. If clem turned up scum, I think shadow would naturally follow in suspicion, and given the choice, I'd rather lose Clem than Shadow (no offense meant, I've just seen shadow play in more games so I know he knows how to play mafia). So lynching Clem seems like a good idea at the moment.

Vote for me than. If you really think I'm scum, you should vote for me. Otherwise we won't get anywhere.

[MoD]

Ashi makes a pretty interesting observation regarding Clem and Shadow. However, this could merely mean they're some sort of Mason role, which, to my understanding, could possibly make them town. However, they could also be mafia. This is looking like the only lead we've got right now. And since I'd definitely rather see Clem dead than Shadow, I'm going to tentatively Vote: Clem until a better lead comes up / he dies.

[LegendShark]

Jenius is a bad mafia player.

[Cara]

Naga is a terrible admin.

lolol

[MoD]

This sucks.

[Naga]

VOTE COUNT

Shadow (1): LegendShark
Ashi (2): Clem, Shadow
Clem (1): MoD

[Dullahan]

VOTE COUNT

Shadow (1): LegendShark
Ashi (2): Clem, Shadow
Clem (1): MoD

deadline plox

[Naga]

Deadline: Friday at 8 PM EST

[Clem]

I'm sick of the bullshit.

Unvote: Ashi, Vote: everyone

[Clem]

Unvote: Everyone, Vote: Mod

Your reasons for voting me are poor, sir. Please find better ones.

[mrs_bun]

18 red 16 green 9 black

R/G/B
7 6 4

Vote: mrs_bun

We were both scum in the last two games we played.

Clem is prolly scum, otherwise this thought wouldn't occur to him.

I'm town, yay! If get lynched I don't care though, since the nicest thing anyone's had to say about me is that I'm an idiot/really bad at mafia. I had a really fun/awesome plan last time, but I guess it wasn't good enough for the rest of the mafia, so we didn't do it. If everyone in the mafia could kindly confirm that I'm not mafia, that'd be great.

Alternatively, lynch me, and help mafia. My M.O. is to help the other side, so getting myself lynched day one as town is oddly apropos, I spose.

Also I have a kewl ability omg! I don't see what the point of it is tho, since it doesn't seem to help anyone, mafia or town. Its more of a "tap: untap this card" kind of ability.

I'll post more once I read the rest of the thread, but I'm thinking vote: clem.

[mrs_bun]

This is actually one of the primary reasons I was considering simply bandwagoning my vote in against bun. Realistically, bun is either towny or mafia.

If she's mafia, she tends to be less suspicious than other people because everyone just posts "I can't tell whether that was bun being scummy or just her normal somewhat ditzy self", which is dangerous. Bun's natural slips and such make it harder to spot her as actual mafia because one might think it's just bun being bun.

If bun is town, I could easily see her sporadic and sometimes moody nature being disruptive for everyone at times.

So realistically, if I wanted anyone dead on d1 with no evidence to or for mafia, in my book bun is a pretty good bet. But I mean she could be the cop or doctor or vig or something too, so it seems dangerous to just lynch her other than just cause.

Are you mafia and trying to get me lynched but covering your bases in case I turn out to have an important role?

Well, I'm town, but I don't have an important role, so if that's your fear, just vote for me and then claim it was a random vote. And since this could be seen as reverse psychology trying to get you to not vote for me by inviting you to vote for me, everyone will see thru my little ploy and forgive you for lynching me, even if it turns out I'm town, since I don't have an important role. And you can always say you jsut lynched me to remove the irritation factor of me quitting as soon as my period starts, which at least six other people will agree is a noble cause, I'm sure. As I sais, I tend to do more damage to the side I'm on. Remember when I got THREE mafia lynched as the mafia don? That was pretty lol. :V

On a serious note, I'm not fosing you, just saying I think your logic is unsound. That having been said, you're prolly safe to lynch me anyway if you want.

okay, so we're metagaming somebody who hasn't posted in the thread yet. :rolleyes:

To me, a lurker is only suspicious if they are still posting on TS a lot, jsut not the thread. I haven't really posted a lot anywhere.

Can I vote for two people?

Can someone tell me what exactly it is about Ashi that is suspicious?

Also, I think the bigger problem with bun is that the chances of her being Mafia in three games in a row are pretty slim. Unlikely... but possible. Jenius gave some pretty good reasons to want to hit her as well.

I don't think the three in a row has anything to do with it. But I think the fact that I asked makes me a likely target of fingers of suspicion right away, so Naga would be stupid to put someone so prone to self incrimination on the mafia side knowing I have a habit of killing several of my teammates and then myself whenever I play mafia.

Who seriously wants to vote bun for having a history of being mafia and fucking herself over? Stop arguing about that. You're all retarded.

Actually, now that I think of it, smart money says vote for me. If I'm town, I'll somehow get a bunch of town killed. If I'm mafia, you just lynched a mafia chick.

Then again, if I am mafia, it might be better for town to just leave me alive. How ironic. I'm town, and if you believe that, you should lynch me. If you think I'm mafia, as town you want to leave me alive.

Finally, I am hesitant to vote for Clem because he and Shadow are kinda buddy buddy, and I like Shadow irl, so I tend to think of him as being on the same side as me, even with no info. I also have a super secret town buddy, which could explain their back and forth if they have the same thing going on.

Since I might not check this again before the deadline...

fos: clem
vote: cara

[Clem]

I'm afraid to ask, but why Cara?

[mrs_bun]

I believe I made it clear in my conversation with Shadow that I personally would prefer to wait but that I also acknowledge a randomvote on day 1 is one of the only feasible options. That is to say I don't find it particularly scummy that you and dull have voted for her, but at the moment I'm going to abstain a bit.

I don't think a random vote is necessarily scummy, since people are famously bad at math, but odds are random vote hits town. If you can't decide on who to vote for based on scummy seeming posts, your best bet is to not lynch at all and hope the cop investigates and finds mafia. Mafia will get a kill a night, usually, or maybe none if there is a protection role, so waiting is a better strategy than random voting if you're town. Further, everyone's random ideas about who is mafia is actually worse for town than a random vote, since some of the seemingly random votes are actually mafia nudging ppl towards town, and since it's day one, they can claim that it was a random vote, and at least three or four of the other people who vote are also going to be town, so that's a defensible position.

Going by that logic (which I think is sound,) I shouldn't vote for anyone, and voting for Cara makes me scummy, but meh. I'd prefer not to be lynched for seeming scummy, but I have a hunch, so I'm going with it. And besides, seeming scummy is really the best thing I can do for the town, since statistically I cause more damage to my own side than the other, and I happen to be town this time.

And since mafia already knows he isn't mafia, I'll jsut give a shout out to JOKER MY SUPER SECRET ALSO TOWN BUDDY SO PLEASE DONT LYNCH HIM EITHER IN CASE THAT COMES UP AND NEITHER OF US GET ON TS BEFORE THE DEADLINE TO DEFEND OURSELVES.

Also, to my knowledge, I've never ever lied in a mafia game. I suggested a tricky plan that got shot down, but I can't remember if that involved a lie, and I don't want to look back 2000 pms ago and find out. But read some of the old mafias for evidence.

[mrs_bun]

I'm afraid to ask, but why Cara?

She'll always be the best chick on teh source, of course.

[Clem]

She'll always be the best chick on teh source, of course.

Are you drunk bun?

[Clem]

EBWODP: Goddamnit bun. Why did you feel the need to tell us you are masons with jok3r?

[Clem]

triple post ftw. Are you both mod confirmed town?

[mrs_bun]

Are you drunk bun?

MAYBE

What was it, my unusually long posts? That's just cuz I havent been on lots and I wanna say everything I think re: this thread, of which there is a good deal.

And finally, this is my first time as town EVER, so I wanna have a good day one, since I think I'm highly likely to get lynched.

[mrs_bun]

triple post ftw. Are you both mod confirmed town?

"Mod confirmed?" What do you think my role pm said? "You are town (maybe???)"

[Clem]

"Mod confirmed?" What do you think my role pm said? "You are town (maybe???)"

No, does your PM say that jok3r is town as well?

[mrs_bun]

Yep.

[Clem]

What about you jok3r? Is bun mod confirmed to you?

[mrs_bun]

umm, bad news guys. just moved into our new house and won't have internet until June 6. That said, I also work every day this week :( but should be able to find campus computing labs to check in on this thread at least.

Onto the topic:

bun obviously has done nothing suspicious. she's done....well....nothing. it is worrisome, but i don't think it's the worst. I think we can definitely use our votes for something a little more than "lynch the lurker." now that i'm thinking more about ashi, he (she?) is starting to look suspicious to me, also, if just for acting dumb.

i'm still also a little suspicious of clem, but my only reasoning for him is somewhat useless on a day 1 scenario. he's had a vote on someone the longest, but a decent reason for half the time.

Yo, clem. Uh oh, I can't have joker confirm I'm town, I must be scum!

Again, though, if you think I'm town, it might be a good idea to lynch me. FoS: anyone who doesn't vote for me? o_O

[Clem]

Naga: Could we have an extension until jok3r comes back? Its kind of important.

[Cee Pee]

So first you say "I have a useless ability" then you state you're a mason? Er. Publicly announcing it and your buddy also strikes me as weird. Though circumstances might cause bun to tell the truth at times. I guess I'll believe the story for now.

Alternatively, lynch me, and help mafia. My M.O. is to help the other side, so getting myself lynched day one as town is oddly apropos, I spose.
The same could be said if you're mafia. :V
What was it, my unusually long posts?
No, you may be drunk because you voted Cara "because she's the best chick on TS", which isn't a valid reason in mafia. What makes you think she's mafia?
Again, though, if you think I'm town, it might be a good idea to lynch me.
Lynching just to prove something is usually a bad idea. Maybe jok3r is a confirmed townie afterwards, but how much does that help if he lost his mason ability anyway?

I'm getting sort of suspicious of Clem right now. First, he has ignored bun's suspicions on him, making them seem less important. Secondly, if he had read bun's post better, he didn't have to ask whether jok3r is town as well. And he apparently didn't read jok3r's post, either, which sort of stated "bun's town, don't lynch her". Though maybe you were just not paying enough attention? :V Yeah, it's not necessarily scummy, I confess.

But what strikes me as weird is requesting a deadline extension. Sure, longer deadlines are better for the town, so requesting one makes you look like town. I'm unsure whether Naga will be lenient. jok3r stated he could get internets on campus, so he might be able to return before the deadline, making your request void.

Anyhow, I do support a deadline extension if he doesn't return. I'm unconvinced on Clem's alignment, so, FoS: Clem.

[Shadow]

Oh god I'm so confused...

Too much reading and new information for just waking up.

[Clem]

I'm getting sort of suspicious of Clem right now. First, he has ignored bun's suspicions on him, making them seem less important. Secondly, if he had read bun's post better, he didn't have to ask whether jok3r is town as well. And he apparently didn't read jok3r's post, either, which sort of stated "bun's town, don't lynch her". Though maybe you were just not paying enough attention? :V Yeah, it's not necessarily scummy, I confess.

I'm not seeing how you could draw that kind of conclusion from jok3r's post. Also, I had to ask if they were mod confirmed. They could not be confirmed to each other, and not know the other's alignment. Though bun stating jok3r is confirmed to her, practically guarantees that she is confirmed to jok3r.

But what strikes me as weird is requesting a deadline extension. Sure, longer deadlines are better for the town, so requesting one makes you look like town. I'm unsure whether Naga will be lenient. jok3r stated he could get internets on campus, so he might be able to return before the deadline, making your request void.I'd like to have jok3r be able to confirm bun, if possible before night fall.

[Cee Pee]

I'm not seeing how you could draw that kind of conclusion from jok3r's post. Also, I had to ask if they were mod confirmed. They could not be confirmed to each other, and not know the other's alignment. Though bun stating jok3r is confirmed to her, practically guarantees that she is confirmed to jok3r.

I'd like to have jok3r be able to confirm bun, if possible before night fall.
bun obviously has done nothing suspicious. she's done....well....nothing. it is worrisome, but i don't think it's the worst. I think we can definitely use our votes for something a little more than "lynch the lurker."
(Emphasis mine). It's a choice of words, yes, but he expressly said she's not suspicious. The word "obviously" would otherwise be useless, because the second sentence already states the obviousness of bun not having done anything.
My point being, he wouldn't have this strong opinion if he wasn't mason. I deducted that he implicitly confirmed bun being town, so we don't really need jok3r re-reconfirm. Though I would like to see him post before the deadline as well, so he might as well.

I find your fervor in getting everything confirmed interesting. Do you think we should lynch bun if jok3r doesn't expressly state she's town?

[Clem]

(Emphasis mine). It's a choice of words, yes, but he expressly said she's not suspicious. The word "obviously" would otherwise be useless, because the second sentence already states the obviousness of bun not having done anything.
My point being, he wouldn't have this strong opinion if he wasn't mason. I deducted that he implicitly confirmed bun being town, so we don't really need jok3r re-reconfirm. Though I would like to see him post before the deadline as well, so he might as well.There is no way you could have guessed jok3r was a mason with bun by that post a lone. Ether your a mind reader, or scum. Vote: CP
I find your fervor in getting everything confirmed interesting. Do you think we should lynch bun if jok3r doesn't expressly state she's town?
The more confirmed townies we have, the better. If night were to come before jok3r confirmed bun, the scum could NK him and leave the situation open ended.

[Cee Pee]

There is no way you could have guessed jok3r was a mason with bun by that post a lone. Ether your a mind reader, or scum. Vote: CP

Or you read wrong yet again. While I was reading the newest posts by bun, I went to look for this post. After bun said she was mason. I thus concluded they're probably confirmed.
The more confirmed townies we have, the better. If night were to come before jok3r confirmed bun, the scum could NK him and leave the situation open ended.
Make that closed ended, unless you're implying we don't get to know the alignment of the dead. If he's town, bun is pretty much likely town as well. If he's mafia, bun is mafia. It's as simple as that. Vote: Clem for overcomplicating things.

[Cee Pee]

Plus, why do you think they're confirmed townie if jok3r states "bun is town"? Words don't always tell the truth. It may as well be a cover-up for the mafia, or maybe a cult (seeing the name), pretending they're masons. Though I believe their story, it is in no way confirmed, and it won't be unless a cop confirms them or they die as town.

Mafia is probably going to kill one of them anyway, because they're the only ones that have stated their role. Mason is pretty much a threat for the mafia. So I'm not sure whether bun was being helpful by "claiming" her role.

[Clem]

Or you read wrong yet again. While I was reading the newest posts by bun, I went to look for this post. After bun said she was mason. I thus concluded they're probably confirmed.
Yes, but there is no way you can be so sure. Unless your scum and you already know who the town is.

Make that closed ended, unless you're implying we don't get to know the alignment of the dead. If he's town, bun is pretty much likely town as well. If he's mafia, bun is mafia. It's as simple as that. Vote: Clem for overcomplicating things.
If jok3r flips town, bun could still be scum. Since we have not heard from jok3r yet, we can't be sure if they really are confirmed town.
Plus, why do you think they're confirmed townie if jok3r states "bun is town"? Words don't always tell the truth. It may as well be a cover-up for the mafia, or maybe a cult (seeing the name), pretending they're masons. Though I believe their story, it is in no way confirmed, and it won't be unless a cop confirms them or they die as town.I think they're confirmed town because of what bun has said. I want to be sure though. Hence my request for a deadline extension.

Mafia is probably going to kill one of them anyway, because they're the only ones that have stated their role. Mason is pretty much a threat for the mafia. So I'm not sure whether bun was being helpful by "claiming" her role.You are correct. bun claiming now, was very pointless and bad.

[Shadow]

unvote: Ashi

Vote: CP

I agree with Clem that CP is jumping to conclusions when we should wait to find out more.

Now, if you're going to be one of those people who says I'm contradicting myself because I was gung ho about getting somebody lynched, you're wrong because since we didn't have any information I wanted to lynch somebody stupid. No that we have information and an actual lead I want to make an informed decision rather than a random lynch.

[Cee Pee]

Yes, but there is no way you can be so sure. Unless your scum and you already know who the town is.
If I'm mafia, why would I tell you they're town? I'm just saying that I believe them, and that they're probably confirmed.
If jok3r flips town, bun could still be scum. Since we have not heard from jok3r yet, we can't be sure if they really are confirmed town.
I think they're confirmed town because of what bun has said. I want to be sure though. Hence my request for a deadline extension.
Oh, I understand. bun may be making up a whole story about being mason with someone who isn't. Unlikely, and pretty risky, but possible.
If you want to be sure jok3r got told bun is town, I guess just sit and wait, and hope the deadline gets extended. But that brings me to something else. What would happen if, say, bun is mafia and jok3r's town, and both got told the other one's town? So even if jok3r says that his PM states bun is town, it in fact does not have to be the case – bun may just be pretending she's town, or vice versa. Though Naga said she didn't use PK'dex, this role is called Mason Traitor. My point being, nothing is confirmed even if jok3r says bun is town. But at least it'll help moving on.

Unvote because we don't want to lynch anyone before jok3r gets back, now do we?

[Cee Pee]

I agree with Clem that CP is jumping to conclusions when we should wait to find out more.

Now, if you're going to be one of those people who says I'm contradicting myself because I was gung ho about getting somebody lynched, you're wrong because since we didn't have any information I wanted to lynch somebody stupid. No that we have information and an actual lead I want to make an informed decision rather than a random lynch.
But you're lynching someone who's being stupid. :V

Also you're jumping to the conclusion that I must be scum, just because of my theoreticals.

[Jenius]

I dunno, I tend to agree with CP here, realistically, no one had much of a need to defend bun and I think a large portion of TS wouldn't mind seeing her knocked out of the game D1 for reasons like how she just stupidly rollclaimed. Joker had a quite definitive stance about bun being town, and I'd probably say that it's more likely they both are town then that they both are mafia and joker is just exceptionally bad (usually blatantly denying that someone might be mafia if that person actually is mafia will inevitably get you killed).

As far as clem/shadow goes, I still find some of their actions scummy, but I'm not fully convinced to hit clem first.

To be honest, Bun's randomvote against Cara doesn't seem too bad, Cara has posted enough to not really be on my lurker list, but has also contributed close to nothing (correct me if I missed a post) which feels like a fairly scummy tactic. It's kind of random and out of the blue, but she feels like an okay vote for day 1.

Let's hope joker gets on in the near future to clear up some stuff.

[Cara]

She voted for one of the people who has treid to defend her.


:rolleyes:

All I can say.

[MoD]

Funny shit. At first when Bun posted about her alleged masonry, my first impulse was to yell "Fucking damnit," but I have to hand it to her, it did get the day moving.

Clem votes CP really quickly for a shitty reason, CP retaliatory votes and then withdraws the vote when he realizes this looks scummy. I invoke the mighty FoS!

Shadow votes the person who has suspicions against bun and votes his friend. Pretty typical, so I'm not going to say whether or not this is scummy.

Unvote: Everyone, Vote: Mod

Your reasons for voting me are poor, sir. Please find better ones.

Oh, I disagree. I think it's the most valid thing we've got right now, with the whole bun/joker thing still open-ended. FoS for retaliation vote. It's either sad or scummy.

In conclusion, tits. We're stuck until joker posts. Bun is simultaneously damned and thanked in my mind... damned for posting what she did but thanked for moving the thread along.

A deadline extension would be incredibly helpful right now.

[MoD]

Also FoS Bun for voting on a "hunch" with no explanation. Fuck that shit. Give us an explanation or die!

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/album_of_DOOM/lolguy.jpg

[Cee Pee]

Clem votes CP really quickly for a shitty reason, CP retaliatory votes and then withdraws the vote when he realizes this looks scummy. I invoke the mighty FoS!
No, I withdrew because I realized I don't want to lynch Clem before Jok3r gets the chance to post. Though that may be evenly scummy, since he's nowhere near being lynched; but it's all up to personal opinion.

[MoD]

No, I withdrew because I realized I don't want to lynch Clem before Jok3r gets the chance to post. Though that may be evenly scummy, since he's nowhere near being lynched; but it's all up to personal opinion.

I know the reason you gave. However, as they say, actions speak louder than words. And I know I could be totally wrong; I'm not really convinced of anything. Just wanted to point out possible scumminess. Everyone will decide on their own.

[LegendShark]

After all that info, I keep my vote on Shadow.

I think that CP is acting perfectly rationally, and it is Clem that is jumping to odd conclusions. I don't see where your vote is coming from, mister.

[MoD]

After all that info, I keep my vote on Shadow.

I think that CP is acting perfectly rationally, and it is Clem that is jumping to odd conclusions. I don't see where your vote is coming from, mister.

RTFT.

I'm too lazy to put in the posts she quoted them. Look it up yourself.

Looking for content to post so I don't get branded a lurker.

I still think lynching randoms is a retarded idea, but have noticed a curious relationship between Shadow and Clem.

A few pages back, when Shadow and Jenius were arguing:



A few posts later -



5 or so more posts -



Aside from that, they've also backed each other up on various arguments, one of them being right above this post where Clem says
in response to Jenius voting Shadow. The other during lynching bun/random on the 2nd/3rd page. The obvious counter to this is that when Clem voted for Bun on the second page, Shadow didn't follow in a vote of his own. But he did, however, defend the decision until he decided lynching me was a better option, and Clem followed.

Basically I voted Clem because of the strange relationship between him and Shadow. And as you say, his "odd conclusions" spark even more suspicion.

Hell, I don't even know what your confusion is, you're the one who just mentioned his odd conclusions. Unless you thought I was voting CP, and in that case, here's a tip: FoS =/= Vote.

[Skydin]

Interesting day one. If the dragon were in the 5th house it would mean I'm retarded for keeping track of that shit, so I will merely say that bun seems slightly... odd, but due to the statements others have made I assume that I may safely assume that that is normal to her. I have watched to long, I think, and still with little results. Were this a real situation I would call for a no vote, the bad energy released by any death being undesirable, but as it stands I believe I will vote for Jenius, though the heavens do not guide me in this.

Vote: Jenius

[LegendShark]

bold or it didn't happen

[Shadow]

I'd like to clarify that clem and I don't have any relation other than we both happen to have similar opinions on what has been happening.

[Skydin]

Vote: Jenius

Though already I question my own reasoning.

[LegendShark]

I'd like to clarify that clem and I don't have any relation other than we both happen to have similar opinions on what has been happening.

Oh thanks mr, townsperson I'll just file that under confirmed knowledge and we can put our differences behind us and just go for a nice picnic under the blue sky.

[Jenius]

Interesting day one. If the dragon were in the 5th house it would mean I'm retarded for keeping track of that shit, so I will merely say that bun seems slightly... odd, but due to the statements others have made I assume that I may safely assume that that is normal to her. I have watched to long, I think, and still with little results. Were this a real situation I would call for a no vote, the bad energy released by any death being undesirable, but as it stands I believe I will vote for Jenius, though the heavens do not guide me in this.

Vote: Jenius

Are your posts so cryptic and odd because of a role or are you just trying to be intentionally confusing?

[Skydin]

You know I can't tell you that. I will, however, make the attempt to be very slightly less confusing.

[LegendShark]

If the odd posts are part of her role she probably wouldn't be able to tell us.

If they aren't part of her role she wouldn't tell us anyways because she'd be doing it to confuse us.

Either way it largely doesn't matter, unless there is some actual hidden information there, and be my guest if you want to analyse each one.

[LegendShark]

Sarnath'd!

[Naga]

VOTE COUNT

bun (1): Dullahan (I missed this at the very beginning, Dullahan never unvoted)
Shadow (1): LegendShark
Clem (1): MoD
Jenius (1): Skydin
Cara (1): bun
CP (2): Clem, Shadow

We'll see what happens in the next two days, in terms of an extension. I'm willing to, but only if activity is thriving. If its not, then, there will be none.

[LegendShark]

Unvote: Shadow

Vote: Clem

The only reason I voted Shadow is because he agreed with Clem, and there will be more votes on Clem, so my strategy is enormous.

[LegendShark]

Unvote: Shadow

Vote: Clem

The only reason I kept my vote on Shadow is because he agreed with Clem, and there will be more votes on Clem, so my strategy is enormous.

EBWOP

[MoD]

EBWOP

Quoting yourself quoting clone is sad.

[mrs_bun]

So, basically lynch bun because she is a terrible player?

Considering the worst she can do in most roles is cause herself to be lynched, what is the problem?

Thanks for defending me, but if you're mafia, then you know I'm town, and you and I have played enough mafia with each other that you might think keeping me alive is good for your side and just lulzy. You're a smarter cookie than most people seem to notice, or maybe they just never comment on it cuz you're all standoffish and they don't feel comfy randomly complimenting you? Ionoi.

In any case, I still think you might be scum based on your posts, but Clem is much scummier seeming, so I'm changing my vote to him. If clem turns out to NOT be mafia, then I think we can vote for shadow day two safely, and if he turns out to be town, then I think we should assume shadow is also town (obv, subject to change due to any night info we get.)

unvote: cara

vote: clem

Also, I really don't see how me claiming my role is bad at all; mafia already knows I'm mafia, and the info that my role gives me (knowing another player is town) is all my role does really, so my best bet is to let everyone know who I am absolutely sure is town asap, so that if I get killed day one or night one, my info doesn't die with me. To me, sharing that info seems like the only logical thing to do! :teach:

[mrs_bun]

mafia already knows I'm mafia,

Oh, me. XP

This was a typo; mafia already knows I'm NOT mafia.

[mrs_bun]

Goodbye, cruel world. :V

[LegendShark]

Goodbye, cruel world. :V

What a coincidence, I made a children's storybook with those exact words on it today.

[LegendShark]

If clem turns out to NOT be mafia, then I think we can vote for shadow day two safely,

I think you screwed up there.

[mrs_bun]

I knew I typed a NOT in there somewhere. XP

[Shadow]

Well, I'd like to see tomorrow happen so,

unvote: whoever I voted

vote: clem

[Skydin]

Ah, so you say you want to see tomorrow happen, or are you simply attempting to put aside the suspicion placed on you by your peers? Time will tell either way.

Unvote: Jenius

Vote: Shadow

Although I do not yet believe my opinion will change the course of events.

[MoD]

Ah, so you say you want to see tomorrow happen, or are you simply attempting to put aside the suspicion placed on you by your peers? Time will tell either way.

Unvote: Jenius

Vote: Shadow

Although I do not yet believe my opinion will change the course of events.

*gasp*

[Skydin]

Then again, I to would like to see tomorrow. Postponement, shall we say.

Unvote: Shadow

Vote: clem

[Naga]

VOTE COUNT

bun (1): Dullahan (I missed this at the very beginning, Dullahan never unvoted)
Clem (5): MoD, LegendShark, bun, Shadow, Skydin
CP (2): Clem

Not voted: Cara, Joker, Ashi

7 to Lynch

[mrs_bun]

D'ACCORD

[mrs_bun]

Joker likely won'w be voting, so its up to cara and ashi, looks lik,e

[mrs_bun]

God damn my weird typos.

[Skydin]

Ah, but night falls according to no man or woman but god, or in the case of this game, the equivalent. Thus, they may well not be required.

[Shadow]

It's probably better if we don't get confused by skydin's posting...

[Skydin]

Deadline: Friday at 8 PM EST

This.

[Skydin]

This.

Though, I now realize that today is not thursday, but rather wednesday, which I had been mislead about.

[Clem]

Unvote me now. I'm the goddamn doctor.

[Shadow]

unvote: clem

:V

[mrs_bun]

Hmm.

unvote: clem

So, what now?

[Skydin]

Perhaps.

Back to Jenius for the moment I suppose.

Unvote

Vote: Jenius

[Shadow]

This is the dumbest first day ever.

/sigh.

[mrs_bun]

Lmao.

Oh well. So, okay. What if Clem just lied? Prolly he didn't, and mafia might kill him tonight, unless he can just protect himself, so lets assume he is town. Where do we go from here?

[Cara]

This is the dumbest first day ever.

I disagree. It's better then a Kantwagon.

[mrs_bun]

I disagree. It's better then a Kantwagon.

She's a SPY!

[Cara]

Acting in a way that would benefit the town is now scummy behavior.

[mrs_bun]

I just really like arrested development. :dancesad:

I guess what we have to decide first is if we believe Clem. That, or make suggestions for who to lynch. I'm a good choice, for reasons already stated.

[mrs_bun]

Well, that, or else we do a no lynch day one. Not the worst thing that could happen.

[Clem]

Vote: Sky

I don't like how your jumping from one wagon too another like that. It seems like you want someone lynched as long as its not a scum buddy or you.

[mrs_bun]

I can see your logic, but she didn't ever vote for me, and I'm sure I'm town. Or joker, for that matter.

I don't have any idea atm. >_<

[Cara]

I can see your logic, but she didn't ever vote for me, and I'm sure I'm town. Or joker, for that matter.

This is by far the most convincing argument ever. :rolleyes:

[mrs_bun]

Okay it isnt great, but I know I'm town, and I know joker is town, and if Sky is mafia, then she knows that me and joker ARENT town, so why didn't she hop on when people voted for me? Or did she and I jsut missed it?

ALTERNATE STRATEGY: we reform the rep cartel, becoming an invincible voting bloc.

[mrs_bun]

We meaning you me and shadow, obv.

[Cara]

I'm not sure the power of our mighty cocks reputation would help us much in a game of mafia.

[mrs_bun]

XP

No, I mean just do it in the thread. Also I was kidding.

And also also, something I didn't post above but meant to, obv my argument was not very convincing, but I was really jsut thinking outloud and sharing my thoughts with other people; obv its totally predicated on believing I'm town. Still, I think I had a worthwhileish point.

[Cee Pee]

Ok. First of all, we have to decide whether to lynch or to No Lynch. While no lynch is a lynch wasted, people have made their points about the chance of actually lynching a mafiate. Also, Skydin posted this: "Were this a real situation I would call for a no vote, the bad energy released by any death being undesirable". It may mean certain things happen when people die. But that's all I can conclude from that.
On a related note, Skydin lacked a reason when voting Jenius. Although the post was rather confusing so I may have missed it.
Second question: When do we end this day? Will we wait for jok3r to confirm our doubts regarding bun's semi-masonry, or will we vote recklessly on whomever is most scummy?
Which brings me to the third question, though it's rather rhetorical: Who is really scummy right now? People are bandwagoning, people are making claims, people are making confusing posts. We don't have much to base our opinions on, except for the contents of posts. Which works in principle, but yeah, it's day one.

Anyway, enough ideas on today, let's look at what we can expect at night. We have a doc claim. Clem is either telling the truth and should thus protect himself from the mafia, or he's actually mafia. His claim will be confirmed is he shows up in bandages in the DP. But that does not mean he must be mafia if he doesn't. The mafia might just have chosen someone else to kill, knowing the doc will protect himself. So we might be at a loss there.
Unless, of course, we have a cop. There is no evidence that there is a cop in the game, but it's probable since there is a doc as well. I'm not sure if we should tell the cop to investigate Clem, since it may be useless after all.

But yeah, hypothesizing over things that might or might not be is kind of useless. I guess we'll find out this night. But racing to a lynch just to get over with today is a bad idea IMHO, because it'll simply increase the chances of hitting town.

Fake Edit: bun,
but I know I'm town, and I know joker is town, and if Sky is mafia, then she knows that me and joker ARENT town, so why didn't she hop on when people voted for me?
You probably mean "then she knows that me and joker ARE town". Because making typos like these are making me mad.

[Clem]

Ok. First of all, we have to decide whether to lynch or to No Lynch. While no lynch is a lynch wasted, people have made their points about the chance of actually lynching a mafiate. Also, Skydin posted this: "Were this a real situation I would call for a no vote, the bad energy released by any death being undesirable". It may mean certain things happen when people die. But that's all I can conclude from that.
:huh:
No lynching on day one is always terrible. There is no way it should ever be done on day one, barring extremely nuts circumstances. No lynching day one only benefits scum.

On a related note, Skydin lacked a reason when voting Jenius. Although the post was rather confusing so I may have missed it.Thats one reason I'm voting her.
Second question: When do we end this day? Will we wait for jok3r to confirm our doubts regarding bun's semi-masonry, or will we vote recklessly on whomever is most scummy?
Which brings me to the third question, though it's rather rhetorical: Who is really scummy right now? People are bandwagoning, people are making claims, people are making confusing posts. We don't have much to base our opinions on, except for the contents of posts. Which works in principle, but yeah, it's day one.
Anyway, enough ideas on today, let's look at what we can expect at night. We have a doc claim. Clem is either telling the truth and should thus protect himself from the mafia, or he's actually mafia. His claim will be confirmed is he shows up in bandages in the DP. But that does not mean he must be mafia if he doesn't. The mafia might just have chosen someone else to kill, knowing the doc will protect himself. So we might be at a loss there.
Unless, of course, we have a cop. There is no evidence that there is a cop in the game, but it's probable since there is a doc as well. I'm not sure if we should tell the cop to investigate Clem, since it may be useless after all.You use a lot of words to say nothing, CP.

But yeah, hypothesizing over things that might or might not be is kind of useless. I guess we'll find out this night. But racing to a lynch just to get over with today is a bad idea IMHO, because it'll simply increase the chances of hitting town.The chances are we'll hit town anyways. Its just the way the odds are.

[mrs_bun]

"then she knows that joker and me ARE town" :teach:

I think that the cop if any should investigate clem. I think that is the only way to go.

Also, who made confusing posts, besides sky, kinda?

[Clem]

Don't try and direct the power roles. If the cop investigates me, and I end up dead, we lose an investigation. The cop should decide for themselves who to investigate.

[mrs_bun]

:huh:
No lynching on day one is always terrible. There is no way it should ever be done on day one, barring extremely nuts circumstances. No lynching day one only benefits scum.

NO. Terrible is lynching town. Not lynching anyone is a wash. Unless it turns out we have NO town who can do any investigatey stuff at night, waiting is better than random guessing.

I'm not nudging everyone towards a no lynch, but don't lynch just because OMG WE HAVE TO LYNCH SOMEONE. Lynch because you think someone is scummy. You can be wrong, but don't just randomly guess ftlog.

[mrs_bun]

Don't try and direct the power roles. If the cop investigates me, and I end up dead, we lose an investigation. The cop should decide for themselves who to investigate.

Mafia is always working as a team, so we should too. Their advantage is team work, ours is numbers. Sooo, if we work as a team, we win.

[Clem]

Mafia is always working as a team, so we should too. Their advantage is team work, ours is numbers. Sooo, if we work as a team, we win.

That doesn't change the fact that trying to direct the power roles in the thread, where the scum can read it, is terrible. If the scum know who the power roles are targeting, they can plan accordingly.

[Shadow]

Mafia is always working as a team, so we should too. Their advantage is team work, ours is numbers. Sooo, if we work as a team, we win.

Mafia bats for both sides though. :P

[Clem]

NO. Terrible is lynching town. Not lynching anyone is a wash. Unless it turns out we have NO town who can do any investigatey stuff at night, waiting is better than random guessing.
Lynching town on day one is better than no lynching. 100% of the time. With an actual lynch we get information on who voted for who, and we can use those patterns to find scum d2. No lynching d1, puts as at d1 minus one townie the next day.


I'm not nudging everyone towards a no lynch, but don't lynch just because OMG WE HAVE TO LYNCH SOMEONE. Lynch because you think someone is scummy. You can be wrong, but don't just randomly guess ftlog.
We're not randomly guessing. We're analliseing people's posts to determine who the scum is. bun, if you weren't near confirmed town I'd think you were scum.

[mrs_bun]

For all we know, you're is still scum, tho. I'm pretty sure he isn't, so I'm not voting for him, but I'm not totally convinced. Every person who gets investigated is one person we can rest assured is town. Obv, the cop if any can decide who they investigfate; I'm not telling anyone what to do. But this is the first time I've been town and I want to win, dang it.

Heck, if we don't lynch ANYONE, then that gives us five days and nights to investigate, meaning we have a majority still (assuming 3 mafia, 9 town,) and then bam, town wins. Or we can vote randomly.

[mrs_bun]

Mafia bats for both sides though. :P

:rip:

Lynching town on day one is better than no lynching. 100% of the time. With an actual lynch we get information on who voted for who, and we can use those patterns to find scum d2. No lynching d1, puts as at d1 minus one townie the next day.



We're not randomly guessing. We're analliseing people's posts to determine who the scum is. bun, if you weren't near confirmed town I'd think you were scum.

Hmm, okay, I see your point there. Also, how am I confirmed town at all? fos: clem :teach:

Also what is analliseing? o_O

[Shadow]

I have to agree with Clem that lynch day one is good because we get information if we lynch rather than just information about the mafia kill.

But I think the most suspicious person is Skydin, followed by CP, then maybe Jenius(?). Although I'm just founding this off of ridiculousness and who wasn't in support of lynch.

[Clem]

Hmm, okay, I see your point there. Also, how am I confirmed town at all? fos: clem :teach:Your confirmed when jok3r gets back and tells us you are.

Also what is analliseing? o_O
Me misspelling words.

[mrs_bun]

I know, my post was a joke.

I would say that we shouldn't wait for that, because

a) joker might turn on me for giggles/no particular reason :O
b) he might not be cake in time :teach:

[mrs_bun]

I know, my post was a joke.

I would say that we shouldn't wait for that, because

a) joker might turn on me for giggles/no particular reason :O
b) he might not be cake in time :teach:

Me might not be BACK in time.

[mrs_bun]

HE. fuck me. >_<

[Cee Pee]

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely for lynching someone today, but we have to be aware of the consequences. So yes, I'm aware my post was kind of useless at first view, it may prove useful when we do get pestilence or whatever. The post was mostly to summarize my views, not to draw conclusions.

Also, lolling over bun's misspellings right now. They're probably unintentional, but yeah, you're making yourself look kind of suspicious sometimes. =o

I like what Shadow did, though; how about we tell who we find suspicious and why? The whole Skydin thing is making me confused. That may be mafia strategy. Apparently she can't tell much else regarding the "bad energy", but least she could do is making her posts more readable, as stated before. I had some suspicions towards Ashi for suggesting a No Lynch would be good somewhat out of the blue, though afterwards I'm less suspicious.
I'm also less suspicious of Clem right now than before his claim. Claiming doc is a risky move if you're mafia, since there may be a real doc. So his claim is likely true, IMO. I'm rather indifferent on the rest. Cara could make more contentful posts, and there may be people lurking (other than jok3r). But that isn't something I want to base a vote on right now.

[mrs_bun]

Oh hush, I'm not suspicious, I'm just famously bad at mafia. I still muse that killing me would not be the worst thing for the town, but since I'm town and asking for it, yall wouldn't really get any good info based off of who voted for me (a clever ruse??? o_O)

Skydin is being random, but

a) it might be her role making her be weird, even chance town or non town (sk, mafia, w/e)

a) she's always kinda randomish anyway

I found clem and shadow suspicious, but now I don't really, because I believe clem's claim, about 99%

I feel like Jenius might be suspicious, but I haven't seen posting from him since clem claimed, so he prolly isn't.

Basically, I have literally no info atm, except that I know joker is town, that leaves 8 people I personally consider to maybe be mafia.

[mrs_bun]

b)

[Shadow]

Well, Jenius said that his internet connection is down so he only gets internet at work, where he is working so we'll have to wait and see if he posts anything else.

[mrs_bun]

No I know, his not posting isn't scummy, the only potentially scummy thing he was doing was thinking clem and you were scummy, which I spose actually makes him really seem NOT scummy.

[Shadow]

Well, having suspicions is normal, obviously, but Jenius's posts were really neutral so I could see him going either way. He's just playing it safe on day one.

[mrs_bun]

Hmm.

[Shadow]

Most people aren't giving away information though.

Cara has just made nearly contentless posts, Dullahan is non-existent to me, MoD is RonnDMC and not saying much, LS doesn't seem suspicious but being Jewish you never know. Ashi hasn't really said much other than get into a little argument with me.

I obviously don't think I'm scum, nor do you, bun, and you say joker isn't. And I'm going to trust Clem for the time being.

That leaves CP but he always makes those long speculative posts so don't know what to think.

I say skydin is the most suspicious for me right now just because of the odd posting style and don't really know what I'm supposed to be reading from her posts.

[mrs_bun]

Hmm, I thought you and clem were like a team or something. ANd I forgot about Dullahan.

I'm not saying Sky isn't mafia, but she really seems to be posting about normal.

Maybe Dullahan or Ashi? o_O

But that's jsut guessing, which is no good.

[Shadow]

Well, an informed guess is better than a blind one.

I don't see something wrong with picking a person among people we just don't know enough about.

[mrs_bun]

Dullahan or Ashi, then, for me. Or Cara, but that would just be bitchy.

[Jenius]

Sorry bout not being on, was kinda busy last night.

I think Clem is blatantly lying. He rollclaimed quite late in and only when it was pretty obvious he was going to die. It seems like the last resort of a dying scum. He could easily be banking on hoping the actual doctor believes there are two doctors or simply doesn't want to reveal themself early on. Also, by doing this, even if the real doctor does stand up and say "oh no you didn't", at the least, the mafia gets the actual doctor out of Clem's death which is better than Clem simply dying.

I'll admit it's possible that he actually is the doctor, but I think the way he handled it was just a bluff, because there's no reason he couldn't just role-claim generic towny first and see if that got heat off him.

Vote: Clem

[mrs_bun]

Skay about not being on. But wouldn't vanilla town make more sense as a roleclaim if he was mafia? And if he IS the doc, why wouldn't he roleclaim that?

I'm not sure how you're so sure, basically.

[Jenius]

Sorry bout not being on, was kinda busy last night.

I think Clem is blatantly lying. He rollclaimed quite late in and only when it was pretty obvious he was going to die. It seems like the last resort of a dying scum. He could easily be banking on hoping the actual doctor believes there are two doctors or simply doesn't want to reveal themself early on. Also, by doing this, even if the real doctor does stand up and say "oh no you didn't", at the least, the mafia gets the actual doctor out of Clem's death which is better than Clem simply dying.

I'll admit it's possible that he actually is the doctor, but I think the way he handled it was just a bluff, because there's no reason he couldn't just role-claim generic towny first and see if that got heat off him.

Vote: Clem
Edit by the way of post.

Going off of this, I'd say if the actual Doctor is presently hesitant about revealing themselves, they should wait a bit. It hurts the town a decent amount if the doctor is simply stuck protecting themselves every night.

Likewise people's ideas to investigate Clem tonight would entail revealing our cop, which is again, bad, for hopefully obvious reasons.

I really think this is just an attempt to use Clem's life to fish for roles.

[mrs_bun]

Cold blooded, Jenius.

[Jenius]

Skay about not being on. But wouldn't vanilla town make more sense as a roleclaim if he was mafia? And if he IS the doc, why wouldn't he roleclaim that?
I'm not sure how you're so sure, basically.

Yeah vanilla town is a more common role to lie about, but he should have at least checked it first if he was the actual doctor (or same had he claimed cop or vig).

This is because it's really bad if mafia knows who the town's special roles go to. We get special roles because they're really helpful in beating the mafia, and by revealing them it normally either gets the role killed, or takes the doctor out of the game (because the doctor would be forced to keep protecting the cop/himself/whatever).

I basically think he's lying because of the way he did it. I admit I could be wrong, but I do think he is presently the far scummiest choice available.

[mrs_bun]

Well, if you're right, I agree with you, but if you're wrong, I totally don't. :V

Iono, part of me wants to say you're scummy for potentially lynching our doc, but then part of me agrees with you.

Okay, Jenius, for realsies: are you mafia? o_O

XP

[Jenius]

I agree I'm advocating for a lynch against a role claimed doc, but realistically, I do think I'm logically right. It's possible I've made an error and screwed up, but the fact is I'm probably going to get lynched tomorrow if I'm wrong so either I'm pretty shortsighted scum, or I just firmly believe I'm right that this is just a ruse to either stall or fish for roles.

[mrs_bun]

This is the only chance to kill Clem if he's the doc without wasting several night hits tho, so as mafia you'd wanna jump on it.

Arg, I can't decide which of yall to vote for. XP

[Shadow]

unvote: whomever I had voted for

vote: Jenius

This is ridiculous. If he is the doc you killed the doc, if he isn't we can test his role for if he is lying. This is just a dumb ploy.

[Jenius]

I'm not sure if trading one mafia for one doctor is worth it in a small game, especially because I don't think people really considered me scum at all at the moment, but I can't really fault your logic.

I do however, still believe I am right, and I will not unvote Clem unless someone has a magical role that can prove Clem's innocence before N1.

[MoD]

Most people aren't giving away information though.

Cara has just made nearly contentless posts, Dullahan is non-existent to me, MoD is RonnDMC and not saying much, LS doesn't seem suspicious but being Jewish you never know. Ashi hasn't really said much other than get into a little argument with me.

I obviously don't think I'm scum, nor do you, bun, and you say joker isn't. And I'm going to trust Clem for the time being.

That leaves CP but he always makes those long speculative posts so don't know what to think.

I say skydin is the most suspicious for me right now just because of the odd posting style and don't really know what I'm supposed to be reading from her posts.

lol @ RonnDMC. And you're right, we do have alot of people not saying much at all... I guess myself included at times. FoS: all the people he mentioned.

I think Skydin might have some kind of interesting role, and I want to see where it goes. Then again, maybe not. Once again, not really saying much that nobody's thought of already.

Sorry bout not being on, was kinda busy last night.

I think Clem is blatantly lying. He rollclaimed quite late in and only when it was pretty obvious he was going to die. It seems like the last resort of a dying scum. He could easily be banking on hoping the actual doctor believes there are two doctors or simply doesn't want to reveal themself early on. Also, by doing this, even if the real doctor does stand up and say "oh no you didn't", at the least, the mafia gets the actual doctor out of Clem's death which is better than Clem simply dying.

I'll admit it's possible that he actually is the doctor, but I think the way he handled it was just a bluff, because there's no reason he couldn't just role-claim generic towny first and see if that got heat off him.

Vote: Clem

I'm definitely tempted to agree with you that he's blatantly lying. Very scummy that he posts it when he did, and an experienced mafia player would probably never roleclaim doc if he was actually doc. However, we need to remember, Clem is a pretty new mafia player... if I remember correctly, it's only his second game? In that case, a rash action isn't too unexpected.

Will I change my vote? Not yet. I want to hear from Clem one more time.

[mrs_bun]

You can't fault his logic but you aren't changing your vote? Jenius is a MAN OF SCIENCE!

:teach:

unvote: someone, vote: Jenius

I'm willing to be persuaded, but as long as you vote for clem, that's my vote. UNLESS IM JUST PROTECTING ONE OF MY MAFIA BUDDIES MUAH HAHAHA (I'm town.)

[MoD]

UNLESS IM JUST PROTECTING ONE OF MY MAFIA BUDDIES MUAH HAHAHA (I'm town.)

:facepalm:

[mrs_bun]

Will I change my vote? Not yet. I want to hear from Clem one more time.

Okay, agree.

[mrs_bun]

:facepalm:

Lmao, what? :V

[Jenius]

unvote: whomever I had voted for

vote: Jenius

This is ridiculous. If he is the doc you killed the doc, if he isn't we can test his role for if he is lying. This is just a dumb ploy.

Test his role and then what, reveal the cop?

Look, the way he went about it is really scummy. If you think my logic is wrong feel free to refute it but let's not simply call me scum for raising the possibility this was just Clem's way out of a fruitless mafia death.

I mean what does it cost Clem? If other doctor roleclaims, he was going to die anyways and now mafia knows who the doctor is.

If we wait a night and cop confirms he is scum, he was again, going to die anyways, and now mafia knows who the cop is. And he got to wait till day2 to get lynched, which prolly means we offed a town D1.

Clem clearly did this as a last resort as he was dying to score some points for mafia.

@Bun: I meant I can't fault your logic that it wouldn't be a terrible idea to sacrifice scum day 2 to lynch the doctor day 1, I don't think it's a good trade for mafia, but it's not an unreasonable point. As far as shadow goes, he didn't really say anything other than "No you're wrong."